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Thank you for your response, which in no way was appropriate, since my comment clearly indicates that the problem you brought up was a non-issue. Furthermore, I don't think it is too much to ask for people to use some common sense rather than needing every last exception and scenario spelled out for them.

And I think that is every Alternate Cosmic I've ever done. If I'm missing any, go ahead and ask.

Lucifer?

The DC Universe!

Why did you do two unique Chimeras, Hydras, and Nemean Lions of distinctly different power levels?

MythMage wrote:Why did you do two unique Chimeras, Hydras, and Nemean Lions of distinctly different power levels?

The first set weren't really Alternate World builds. Pay your attention to the 51 HD lion, the 49 HD hydra, and the 37 HD chimera.

And yeah, you are missing Lucifer. Don't think you ever made him as a CsE though: the only build I've seen of him had 11 Divine Ranks and a +9 bonus in Hell, like your first build of Asmodeus.

kreest wrote:Lucifer?

Ah yes, the gods. All of the gods need to be revised somewhat, and Lucifer was built as a god.

Phaedros wrote:The DC Universe!

Yeah, they are next massive project on the list.

MythMage wrote:Why did you do two unique Chimeras, Hydras, and Nemean Lions of distinctly different power levels?

The later ones are the AW builds. The former ones existed from before AW did, and went more overboard on the HD than I'd prefer.

Yeah, I noticed with a bunch of your newer gods (the giant pantheon, specifically) that you just gave them rank checks and some special abilities, rather than all the salient abilities and whatnot. Didn't bother to check whether you still added rank as a divine bonus to everything.

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Yeah, I noticed with a bunch of your newer gods (the giant pantheon, specifically) that you just gave them rank checks and some special abilities, rather than all the salient abilities and whatnot. Didn't bother to check whether you still added rank as a divine bonus to everything.

I didn't, largely because I wanted to do them high in HD and DvR bonuses would ruin that. The classic gods are being done in the normal AW style divinity, but I need to better format them.

Annam needs his epic spells per day listed by the way.

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Annam needs his epic spells per day listed by the way.

See his HD? Divide by ten. Unless you want to assume the same editing, formatting and indexing responsibilities as Aluroon, in which case you can absolutely go add it in. I've got breakfast to go eat.

I'm not even sure Annam was finished. I've got a ton of giant gods that aren't finished yet, so it is entirely possible that I did him wrong.

mercucio wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:

mercucio wrote:

I'm not sure if you are referencing Enduring Life correctly in Death's entry. It doesn't grant you immunity to negative levels, it simply postones the penalties. As a result you'd still die should your negative levels equal your hit dice.

I referenced it correctly. Enduring Life's ability to postpone the penalties is vulnerable to Inexorable.

Then you might want to clarify Inexorable, since it only states it can overcome artificial and natural immunities. The benefit granted by Enduring Life is neither.

mercucio wrote:

KingCrazyGenius wrote:By definition everything is either natural or unnatural.

Thank you for your comment, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The topic here is immunity to negative levels, which Enduring Life does not grant. Rather it ameilorates the penalties associated with negative levels for a brief period time.


On a different note: why invocations instead of mysteries fro Graz'zt?

If for some reason you two were confused into thinking that the note on Nick's thread was an invitation to come bicker on mine, I apologize for misleading you. Knock it off, both of you.

To address the Enduring Life issue, the feat provides partial and temporary immunity to energy drain in the form of delaying the penalties. (Or ameliorates, if you prefer that word) An immunity that is natural, once the feat is taken, in case that is somehow under question. KCG is correct that there is no further need to spell out the effect. While the argument could go back and forth about whether or not EL is an actual immunity, it being mentioned as affected by Inexorable, thus it is clear that if Death makes her check, the feat doesn't work; if the victim makes their check, the feat does work.

As for invocations vs mysteries for Graz'zt, I built him as a warlock, which gains invocations. Although Graz'zt is known as the Prince of Shadow, his overriding themes of seduction, pacts, treachery, etc, seem to call for warlock over shadowmancer. He did retain his unique benefits while in shadow, benefits that no shadow themed class can duplicate. Incidentally, Wolfgang Barr clearly agreed with me since his Aspect of Graz'zt had integrated warlock levels as well. I'll check back over Tome of Magic, see if any of the mysteries are worth incorporating as SLAs. (probably at will)

Whats up with Appolyon getting much stronger (relative to other powers) in AW ? IIRC he was around CR 60 in the old DF board.

mpa wrote:Whats up with Appolyon getting much stronger (relative to other powers) in AW ? IIRC he was around CR 60 in the old DF board.

Are you referring to his DF official comparison? I don't care (in regards to AW) where DF official places its entities. Apollyon and Eblis are meant to be the absolute most powerful Fallen in my cosmos, and that means near max HD solar for the moment. (I may revise one of them to Seraph or create another major Fallen in the future)

Of the two, I think Apollyon should be the one switched to Seraph if either of them were to. In AW, you have the aasimon as the protectors of the mortal coil, which makes Eblis' hatred of mortals all the more a fall from what he once was.

As for their enormous level of hit dice, I find them to be among the most compelling characters in the game (which means Dicefreaks is doing something right) and deserving of the tremendous power they possess in Alternate World.

I really like your work, and I'll be using many of your outsider conversions and unique entities in my campaign (My PCs are due for a meeting with Apomps soon, should be fun. ). I wondered, however: Why is it that when Asmodeus gets so great increases in power while in Hell when none of the other "top dog" exemplar outsiders (Demogorgon, Primus, Michael and/or Gabriel, the Oinoloth and/or General) get similar benefits on their home planes/layers? I approve most heartily of your Lord of the Nine statblocks, (Hell, I approve of almost all your statblocks) but is it that they have received more attention because we have Gates of Hell as an available reference and much less, as yet, for the other alignments?

Asha'man wrote:I really like your work, and I'll be using many of your outsider conversions and unique entities in my campaign (My PCs are due for a meeting with Apomps soon, should be fun. ). I wondered, however: Why is it that when Asmodeus gets so great increases in power while in Hell when none of the other "top dog" exemplar outsiders (Demogorgon, Primus, Michael and/or Gabriel, the Oinoloth and/or General) get similar benefits on their home planes/layers? I approve most heartily of your Lord of the Nine statblocks, (Hell, I approve of almost all your statblocks) but is it that they have received more attention because we have Gates of Hell as an available reference and much less, as yet, for the other alignments?

It is actually more because Asmodeus used to be a DvR 18 deity, and when I dropped him down to cosmic only, I didn't want to cut too much of his mechanical power with it.

Ah, I see. No point in symmetry for its own sake, I guess. I'm often guilty of that in my own designs. Still, that does mean that as long as he remains snug in Malsheem, the King of Hell puts both Primus and the Demogorgon to shame power-wise, to say nothing of the Yugoloth lords. But then, The One And Prime is stronger than baseline Asmodeus, Prince of Demons is a title with far less substance than King of Hell and NE doesn't have a singular head entity in any case, so I guess it's a wash.

Take note that Demogorgon also gains significant benefits when in his own abyssal layer, and beyond that has more mechanical potency than pretty much anything else in Alternate World.

Mechanical potency I'll give you. But as far as I can see, in Gaping Maw Demogorgon gains the realm control abillities that all True cosmics gets and triples his hit points. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's a pittance beside what Asmodeus gets. In any case, though, I conceded this discussion in my last post. I thought at first that Asmodeus' benefits seemed unprecedented and possibly damaging to cosmological consistency, but my concerns have been adressed. Thank you both.

Your post in MythMage's AW builds reminded me of this issue:

Why do your fey lords have alignment subtypes?

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Your post in MythMage's AW builds reminded me of this issue:

Why do your fey lords have alignment subtypes?

Do all of them? Even the later ones like Cernunnos? I'm not sure I have an immediate answer to that, if Cernunnos has it. It is possible that because these 'fey lords' were also gods to a people, I decided to give the alignment subtype. Or, I wanted them to penetrate aligned DR.

Perhaps removing the subtypes and adding that Cosmic/Divine entities penetrate DR as entities of their alignment is more appropriate.

I noted that both Titania and the Snow Queen did. Cernunnos does not.

I don't mind them being able to penetrate alignment based DR and Regen, but I don't like the idea of beings who don't totally embody an alignment having an alignment subtype (this goes for deities as well, though determining which ones get alignment subtypes and which ones don't could end up a mess).

Ok, Death Throes for cosmic demons. Right now I'll only do the demons I'm familiar with.

Unless otherwise noted, artifacts are not damaged by a cosmic demon's death throes (unless this is the prescribed method for destroying a specific artifact).

Apollyon: 33d12, half vile disintegration. If reduced to 0 hit points by this effect, the affected creature is destroyed utterly. Likewise, everything within the radius must make an additional Fortitude save or be destroyed utterly regardless. Good-aligned artifacts are subject to destruction.

Baphomet: 22d12, half unholy water damage (like his breath weapon). Everyone within 600 ft. must also save against his maze gaze effect.

Dagon-Rahab: 30d12, half water-based bludgeoning (creatures with the fire subtype take an additional 15d12 bludgeoning regardless of success on the save). The eight mile radius surrounding Dagon-Rahab is immediately filled with water for the next eight hours (if it isn't already). The water has no dissolved air, meaning even water-breathing creatures are subject to drowning.

Demogorgon: 35d12, all vile cosmic. Everything within 20 miles must make an additional Fortitude save or immediately gain the corrupted creature template (whether the template normally applies to them or not) and an additional Will save or immediately and permanently become chaotic evil. Creatures who fail both saves become carriers of this corruption, and spread it to the next six creatures they come into physical or psychic contact with who lack the corrupted template and a chaotic evil alignment (though the saves are based on the creature in question, not Demogorgon).

Fraz-Urb'luu: 24d12, half illusionary (successful Will save negates illusionary damage, a failed save maximizes it, no illusionary damage to mindless). All objects in the radius are subjected to Fraz-Urb'luu's Disjunctive Touch.

Graz'zt: 27d12, half vile acid. All females in the radius must make additional Fort saves or become impregnated by Graz'zt corrosive seed. The expecting mothers do everything within their power to protect their children both before and after birth, but are not otherwise under any special compulsion, nor do they automatically obey their child.

Juiblex: 20d12, half acid. The radius is coated with green slime.

Kostchtchie: 20d12, half cold. Anything that takes cold damage also takes 5d6 Dex damage and are subject to being frozen solid as per his breath weapon.

Malcanthet: 23d12, half electricity. Anyone within the radius must also make Will saves or become dominated as though by her Seductive Gaze. Those who fail also gain the benefit of Queen's Pleasure (+10 profane bonus to saves, +10 bonus to Charisma). Though Malcanthet is not alive to command them, they nonetheless carry out her legacy. The dominated effect can be removed as normal, after which the bonuses from Queen's Pleasure immediately fade.

Orcus: 28d12, half vile negative energy. All dead creatures in the radius (including those who died from Orcus' death throes) immediately rise as wights.

Pale Night: 29d12, half vile force. All creatures in the radius are also subjected to her form of madness once a day for the next six days.

Pazuzu: 29d12, half air-based slashing. No clue what the special effect should be.

Yeenoghu: 22d12, half piercing (bone, teeth, and claw fragments). All must save against filth fever and ghoul fever.

Zuggtmoy: 25d12, no clue about the secondary damage or special effect.