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Can we get a small write ups / background for Armaros ? I've never heard of him before but he looks like a total badass

Heprobably would win a duel against Mephisto due to his higher INT, uncapped spells and multispell x3 as opposed to none at all for the Archduke.

mpa wrote:Can we get a small write ups / background for Armaros ? I've never heard of him before but he looks like a total badass

Heprobably would win a duel against Mephisto due to his higher INT, uncapped spells and multispell x3 as opposed to none at all for the Archduke.

Multispell is being removed in Alternate World. Nonetheless, I agree with your assessment. He is meant to be the archmage of all Hell. He had a write up in Dragon 75.

Kain Darkwind wrote:Multispell is being removed in Alternate World. Nonetheless, I agree with your assessment. He is meant to be the archmage of all Hell. He had a write up in Dragon 75.

I think Ro3 actually had GoH type stats for him and a background once...

Is he in DRAGON? Wow. And I own that thing. He must not be especially impressive (relatively speaking).

The Serge wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:Multispell is being removed in Alternate World. Nonetheless, I agree with your assessment. He is meant to be the archmage of all Hell. He had a write up in Dragon 75.

I think Ro3 actually had GoH type stats for him and a background once...

Is he in DRAGON? Wow. And I own that thing. He must not be especially impressive (relatively speaking).

Exiled to Avernus, because Asmodeus considers him too valuable to just kill, but too powerful to allow to claim his own Lordship. Not really more or less impressive than any of the 1e archdevils, to be honest.

If he isn't in 75, then he's in 94. Or which ever issue in the 90's had archdevils and dukes of Hell.

mercucio wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:Multispell is being removed in Alternate World. Nonetheless, I agree with your assessment. He is meant to be the archmage of all Hell. He had a write up in Dragon 75.

Is anything replacing it?

No. Two spells per full round, four melee attacks per full round. That's enough if you aren't named Flash.

Things like the Simbul's Spell Matrix will still allow certain multiple spell effects to be launched simultaneously, but at cost.

I have to agree.

By the way, did you make that fighter rule about treating their weapon damage as higher size categories official in Alternate World yet?

KingCrazyGenius wrote:I have to agree.

By the way, did you make that fighter rule about treating their weapon damage as higher size categories official in Alternate World yet?

It seems that I have. Every ten levels.

The base creature is CE and lacks the Evil subtype: why should the hand of death have it?

Wintermute wrote:

Aluroon wrote:

Wintermute wrote:

Aluroon wrote:DC's at 1/2 CL + ability mod would be a start at fixing it

Also a terrible idea, given how easy it is to boost one's caster level.

Maybe 5 classes (most of which only increase it by 1) & a pair of items that up it by 1?

Close, but no.

I see five classes and a pair of items in that list, what are you talking about, Wintermute?


However, guys, this line of conversation has...absolutely nothing to do with my unique entities. It just kills me that you would come to the Alternate World forum (My house! You do this to me in my own house?!) and not talk about Alternate World. I might just cure cancer if you guys keep it up.

Aluroon, you've been both participating in the discussion and have mod power over the board. Split the stuff that isn't talking about AW anymore off and send it over to 3e discussion.

Have you taken a look at UK's Metamagic Freedom & Automatic Metamagic Capacity feats Kain?

Aluroon wrote:Have you taken a look at UK's Metamagic Freedom & Automatic Metamagic Capacity feats Kain?

I've looked at Automatic Metamagic Capacity, but I don't think I've seen Metamagic Freedom. I'm not sure either of them advance my philosophy of more powerful actions rather than a higher number of actions per round.

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Aluroon wrote:Have you taken a look at UK's Metamagic Freedom & Automatic Metamagic Capacity feats Kain?

I've looked at Automatic Metamagic Capacity, but I don't think I've seen Metamagic Freedom. I'm not sure either of them advance my philosophy of more powerful actions rather than a higher number of actions per round.

Together they remove Multispell, Improved Metamagic, and most Epic Metamagic feats from the game. Metamagic Freedom lets you apply a metamagic feat more then once to the same spell (Empowered x3 Fireball). Automatic Metamagic is the only means by which you can get off more then 2 spells a round. If you choose to use Automatic Metamagic Capacity to replicate quicken then you can also cast a normal quickened spell + regular spell. Of course it takes 4 applications of Automatic Metamagic Capacity to do that even once, 8 applications to do so twice, and so forth.

If your really concerned with the power of multispell (as you should be) then its an interesting alternative.

Just thought I'd throw it out.

Aluroon wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Aluroon wrote:Have you taken a look at UK's Metamagic Freedom & Automatic Metamagic Capacity feats Kain?

I've looked at Automatic Metamagic Capacity, but I don't think I've seen Metamagic Freedom. I'm not sure either of them advance my philosophy of more powerful actions rather than a higher number of actions per round.

Together they remove Multispell, Improved Metamagic, and most Epic Metamagic feats from the game. Metamagic Freedom lets you apply a metamagic feat more then once to the same spell (Empowered x3 Fireball). Automatic Metamagic is the only means by which you can get off more then 2 spells a round. If you choose to use Automatic Metamagic Capacity to replicate quicken then you can also cast a normal quickened spell + regular spell. Of course it takes 4 applications of Automatic Metamagic Capacity to do that even once, 8 applications to do so twice, and so forth.

If your really concerned with the power of multispell (as you should be) then its an interesting alternative.

Just thought I'd throw it out.

Is Metamagic Freedom stackable or a one time only feat that allows infinite application of as much metamagic as you can afford?

I'm also not sure that AMM would allow for anymore spells per round than removing Multispell does, since my world doesn't share the massive HD expanse that UK's does.

Also, there are precisely two epic metamagic feats, Intensify (which is empower x2 + maximize) and Enhance (which raises the cap by 10 levels), so how can it remove most epic metamagic? It either removes none, half or all, and from what I've seen, it replaces Intensify only.

Kain Darkwind wrote:Is Metamagic Freedom stackable or a one time only feat that allows infinite application of as much metamagic as you can afford?

The latter. The AMC feat is stackable and is what lets you apply more and more metamagic to a spell.

Wintermute wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:Is Metamagic Freedom stackable or a one time only feat that allows infinite application of as much metamagic as you can afford?

The latter. The AMC feat is stackable and is what lets you apply more and more metamagic to a spell.

And AMC allows you to apply...any metamagic feat you know, or any in existence whose spell slot increase is within your range of level of AMC?


For instance, with 4 applications of AMC, but no Quicken Spell, can I still launch off a quickened spell once per round for that?

Kain Darkwind wrote:Is Metamagic Freedom stackable or a one time only feat that allows infinite application of as much metamagic as you can afford?

One time only.

Kain Darkwind wrote:I'm also not sure that AMM would allow for anymore spells per round than removing Multispell does, since my world doesn't share the massive HD expanse that UK's does.

4 feats to get off 1 additional quickened spell. Limits it greatly but I wouldn't say that it wouldn't allow any more.

Kain Darkwind wrote:Also, there are precisely two epic metamagic feats, Intensify (which is empower x2 + maximize) and Enhance (which raises the cap by 10 levels), so how can it remove most epic metamagic? It either removes none, half or all, and from what I've seen, it replaces Intensify only.

It removes them.

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Wintermute wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:Is Metamagic Freedom stackable or a one time only feat that allows infinite application of as much metamagic as you can afford?

The latter. The AMC feat is stackable and is what lets you apply more and more metamagic to a spell.

And AMC allows you to apply...any metamagic feat you know, or any in existence whose spell slot increase is within your range of level of AMC?


For instance, with 4 applications of AMC, but no Quicken Spell, can I still launch off a quickened spell once per round for that?

I am pretty sure you still need to have the actual metamagic feat before you can apply it, but I'm no expert on the system. Basically, it just replaces higher-level spell slots and the various epic metamagic feats (auto-quicken, intensify, that's really about it).

Wintermute wrote:I am pretty sure you still need to have the actual metamagic feat before you can apply it, but I'm no expert on the system.

Correct

Wintermute wrote:Basically, it just replaces higher-level spell slots and the various epic metamagic feats (auto-quicken, intensify, that's really about it).

Incorrect. Improved Spell Capacity remains. Automatic Still/Silent/Quicken are removed as are Intensify, Enhance, Improved Metamagic, and Multispell.

I like the feats but still don't like the idea of more than two spells going off per round. It just gets too hard to keep a creature alive (and thus meriting a CR) when it has to be capable of surviving 3 or 4 or 20 save or dies, massive damage, six walls of force putting it in a makeshift and larger forcecube, etc. Or even more once you factor in time-stop. You could build a fricken castle out of wall spells around the poor bastard. To say nothing of the utter imbalance it creates between casters and non-casters.

Even if I did adopt the idea, I wouldn't likely allow it to dupe free quickens. Frankly, I think it would be better if magic was divided better into full round and standard action version of spells, and quicken dropped entirely.

Kain Darkwind wrote:I like the feats but still don't like the idea of more than two spells going off per round. It just gets too hard to keep a creature alive (and thus meriting a CR) when it has to be capable of surviving 3 or 4 or 20 save or dies, massive damage, six walls of force putting it in a makeshift and larger forcecube, etc. Or even more once you factor in time-stop. You could build a fricken castle out of wall spells around the poor bastard. To say nothing of the utter imbalance it creates between casters and non-casters.

Even if I did adopt the idea, I wouldn't likely allow it to dupe free quickens. Frankly, I think it would be better if magic was divided better into full round and standard action version of spells, and quicken dropped entirely.

Consider a 30th level wizard. He has 7 epic feats. At most thats 1 extra quickened spell (Automatic Metamagic Capacity x4 + Metamagic Freedom) with 2 extra epic feats.

40th level wizard. 13 epic feats. At best he'll end up with Automatic Metamagic Capacity x12 and Metamagic Freedom. 3 extra spells a round at best. He has no epic spells and the same number of spells each day as a 20th level wizard. If he spams quickens he ends up burning through the few resources he has with absurd speed.

Aluroon wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:I like the feats but still don't like the idea of more than two spells going off per round. It just gets too hard to keep a creature alive (and thus meriting a CR) when it has to be capable of surviving 3 or 4 or 20 save or dies, massive damage, six walls of force putting it in a makeshift and larger forcecube, etc. Or even more once you factor in time-stop. You could build a fricken castle out of wall spells around the poor bastard. To say nothing of the utter imbalance it creates between casters and non-casters.

Even if I did adopt the idea, I wouldn't likely allow it to dupe free quickens. Frankly, I think it would be better if magic was divided better into full round and standard action version of spells, and quicken dropped entirely.

Consider a 30th level wizard. He has 7 epic feats. At most thats 1 extra quickened spell (Automatic Metamagic Capacity x4 + Metamagic Freedom) with 2 extra epic feats.

40th level wizard. 13 epic feats. At best he'll end up with Automatic Metamagic Capacity x12 and Metamagic Freedom. 3 extra spells a round at best. He has no epic spells and the same number of spells each day as a 20th level wizard. If he spams quickens he ends up burning through the few resources he has with absurd speed.

I'm well aware of the math involved. The problem is that even one wizard being capable of a one round slaughter of a Lord of Hell or great wyrm dragon or greater god is too much. Even if that wizard has no magic left and will be killed post haste, the fact that they were capable of the feat in the first place starts to shatter the CR system beyond its already crippled status.

And 5 spells per round is more than 4 melee attacks or even more than 10 melee attacks, assuming two weapons of speed and two handed perfect fighting. Not only are the spells capable of higher damage, higher range and a greater variety of effects, it takes more time to select which 5 spells a round you are going to use and in which order, where as a melee character has but to decide Full Attack or Not Full Attack.

It is a flawed concept in the game world and a flawed concept in play.

I don't see why any wizard should need more than one standard action spell and one swift action spell each turn.

KingCrazyGenius wrote:I don't see why any wizard should need more than one standard action spell and one swift action spell each turn.

I've got this idea tumbling around in my head that would allow 9 spell levels to be cast as a full round action at 17th level. And 5 as a standard action.

I'd probably never try to force that onto the DnD system, but if I was designing something from the ground up, that's something I'd consider, and design the spells to match that idea. Puts wizards and fighters on somewhat equal ground. Full attack = more power, standard attack = more maneuverability.

Aluroon wrote:Incorrect. Improved Spell Capacity remains. Automatic Still/Silent/Quicken are removed as are Intensify, Enhance, Improved Metamagic, and Multispell.

No, Improved Spell Capacity only exists if you're using the Feanmerc epic spell system.

Kain Darkwind wrote:I've got this idea tumbling around in my head that would allow 9 spell levels to be cast as a full round action at 17th level. And 5 as a standard action.

I'd probably never try to force that onto the DnD system, but if I was designing something from the ground up, that's something I'd consider, and design the spells to match that idea. Puts wizards and fighters on somewhat equal ground. Full attack = more power, standard attack = more maneuverability.

Hmm...I've seen worse ideas.

Please, elaborate on it further. See where it takes us.