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by **WarDragon** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:17 pm

When Crystalle merges with another quasielemental, is the other destroyed? Does it get a save or any chance to resist? How long do the stat increases last? Can it merge with more than one at a time, and if so, do the bonuses stack or overlap?

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by **Kain Darkwind** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:06 pm

WarDragon wrote:When Crystalle merges with another quasielemental, is the other destroyed?

No, just as it isn't destroyed when a normal mineral quaimental does so.

Does it get a save or any chance to resist?

I wouldn't be inclined to give it one unless it was a unique quasimental itself.

How long do the stat increases last?

As long as it remains merged.

Can it merge with more than one at a time, and if so, do the bonuses stack or overlap?

No.

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:55 pm

Hmm...I would have put the Nemean Lion at 48 HD myself (double the maximum hit dice of a dire lion). Also, his claws need a special ability to penetrate damage reduction (such as its own. As the tale goes after Heracles hugged the lion to death, he used its own claws to skin it and make himself his awesome lionskin cloak thing.)

The hydra seems pretty spot on. You need to repost your stats for Herc though, since we can see if these are a) actually killable by him prior to his ascent to true godhood and b) if so, enough of a challenge for him. The stories don't seem to specify how long these things take, but I would imagine wrestling the Nemean Lion as being a full-day event.

Chimera looks good too, though it was killed by some archer guy who was riding the original Pegasus (which itself was the child of Medusa and Poseidon), as opposed to Hercules like so many of the spawn of Typhon.

Speaking of Typhon, I'd love to see your take on him.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:40 pm

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Hmm...I would have put the Nemean Lion at 48 HD myself (double the maximum hit dice of a dire lion). Also, his claws need a special ability to penetrate damage reduction (such as its own. As the tale goes after Heracles hugged the lion to death, he used its own claws to skin it and make himself his awesome lionskin cloak thing.)

The lion and chimera were both created using the dire legendary and legendary guidelines on a dire lion and chimera. The Nemean lion was then advanced 1.5 HD. I figure a fully (2x HD) advanced legendary dire lion would be something like the King of All Beasts in the Beastlands, or maybe Mufasa.

For your reference, a legendary lion has 18-36 HD, and a legendary dire lion has 34-68 HD.

Good point about the claws. Could it be just that the lion had DR/epic?

Chimera looks good too, though it was killed by some archer guy who was riding the original Pegasus (which itself was the child of Medusa and Poseidon), as opposed to Hercules like so many of the spawn of Typhon.

Speaking of Typhon, I'd love to see your take on him.

Bellerephon or somesuch killed Chimera. Pegasus is coming as well.

Typhon...would be tough, given the horrified response to Cronus I got. But I'll work on him.

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:18 pm

DR 30/epic could work, except that Herc's quasi-deitiness would penetrate it without a problem.

As for dire lengendary, never heard of it.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:34 pm

KingCrazyGenius wrote:As for dire lengendary, never heard of it.

It is an Alternate World exclusive concept. (Until someone takes it). Basically, it is to a dire lion what a legendary lion is to a regular lion.

by **Sarya** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:21 am

Couldn't Cerebus be a three headed Dire Legendary Dog/Wolf... I have never heard of Cerebus actually having a breath weapon until DND. Although, he is the son of Typhon so I can see which side of the family he gets it from.

Although whats weird about cerebus is one head has eyes, one has ears, one has a nose... and what do all three have in common... teeth. So i would say give it a good spot, and listen, blindsense, and an improved scent ability (i would make it kind of like a shark's).... and leave the bite damage.

Also I would give him Life Sense. The reason is he is able to determine the living from the dead and that is something alot of people forget with greek mythology. Not only that.... no one has successfully hidden from Cerebus and lived.

I also believe that his alignment is LN. He attacks anyone and anything that tries to enter (good nor evil) and the reason he is there : to only allow the dead in, and no one out.

by **Custom_Hobby** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:57 am

Did you include the snakes down his back like a mane?

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:15 am

Custom_Hobby wrote:Did you include the down his back like a mane?

Unless it provides some kind of hair bonus to something, I fail to see why Kain would, since only a handful of this builds include physical descriptions.

As I see it, Cerberus is a Magical Beast like his siblings (Nemean Lion, Lernean Hydra, Chimera, Thebian Sphynx, and I think I'm forgetting a few), so I have no complaints. The only thing I find strange is that Cerberus is the only one with the Divine subtype, rather than the Cosmic subtype.

I also think that Cerberus should not be allowed rank checks against mind-affecting effects at all, unless Kain intends on statting Orpheus with rank.

by **Custom_Hobby** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:47 am

KingCrazyGenius wrote:
Custom_Hobby wrote:Did you include the down his back like a mane?

Unless it provides some kind of hair bonus to something, I fail to see why Kain would, since only a handful of this builds include physical descriptions.

Sorry I forgot the most important word "snakes." I went back and fixed it. I was thinking it might provide a deterrent to grappling with it like Hercules did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus

Website · by **MythMage** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:55 pm

KingCrazyGenius wrote:I also think that Cerberus should not be allowed rank checks against mind-affecting effects at all, unless Kain intends on statting Orpheus with rank.

Since Orpheus is the son of a goddess (Calliope of the Muses), I would expect him to have it.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:20 pm

MythMage wrote:
KingCrazyGenius wrote:I also think that Cerberus should not be allowed rank checks against mind-affecting effects at all, unless Kain intends on statting Orpheus with rank.

Since Orpheus is the son of a goddess (Calliope of the Muses), I would expect him to have it.

Correct. I'm unsure about Cerberus having Divine or Cosmic type...it is true that most of his brothers and sisters have Cosmic type or no type.

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:49 am

MythMage wrote:
KingCrazyGenius wrote:I also think that Cerberus should not be allowed rank checks against mind-affecting effects at all, unless Kain intends on statting Orpheus with rank.

Since Orpheus is the son of a goddess (Calliope of the Muses), I would expect him to have it.

Must have missed that detail. Having trouble thinking of any Greek heroes who lack divine ancestry. Maybe Atalanta, though she was suitably badass regardless.

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:26 pm

Kain, you have a bunch of no-name suckers up there, but I am noticing a distinct lack of Graz'zt.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Wed May 07, 2008 5:30 pm

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Kain, you have a bunch of no-name suckers up there, but I am noticing a distinct lack of Graz'zt.

Your powers of observation have not failed you. Graz'zt and Demogorgon are at the end of a long ass list, some of which require revisions to the Spell-like ability formatting, since I shortcutted and put DC x+spell level rather than doing it the right way the first time.

by **mercucio** » Wed May 07, 2008 6:53 pm

I'm not sure if you are referencing Enduring Life correctly in Death's entry. It doesn't grant you immunity to negative levels, it simply postones the penalties. As a result you'd still die should your negative levels equal your hit dice.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Wed May 07, 2008 6:57 pm

mercucio wrote:
I'm not sure if you are referencing Enduring Life correctly in Death's entry. It doesn't grant you immunity to negative levels, it simply postones the penalties. As a result you'd still die should your negative levels equal your hit dice.

I referenced it correctly. Enduring Life's ability to postpone the penalties is vulnerable to Inexorable.

by **Center-of-All** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:02 pm

Were Paizo's creatures really bad enough for you to want to redo them?

by **Kain Darkwind** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:06 pm

Center-of-All wrote:Were Paizo's creatures really bad enough for you to want to redo them?

?? Are you referring to the demons in the prison? Not at all. WotC's multiclassing rules are what are bad. Two of them used demons from 3.0 stats that I've updated since then, and so I used my base demons plus my monster multiclassing to create my 'revisions' of Paizo's creatures.

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:26 pm

I notice some of your newer builds are showing off boosting temptation things that go outside of the general cosmic fiend Temptation wish for your soul ability. Kinda like it.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:27 pm

KingCrazyGenius wrote:I notice some of your newer builds are showing off boosting temptation things that go outside of the general cosmic fiend Temptation wish for your soul ability. Kinda like it.

Which ones in particular are you referencing?

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:31 pm

Malcanthet's Queen's Pleasure and the Hand of War, Famine, and Pestilence immediately spring to mind: useful and attractive gifts that ultimately destroy the fools who accept them...or the fools who got too close to avoid them.

by **Kain Darkwind** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:42 pm

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Malcanthet's Queen's Pleasure and the Hand of War, Famine, and Pestilence immediately spring to mind: useful and attractive gifts that ultimately destroy the fools who accept them...or the fools who got too close to avoid them.

Ah, well I can't take credit for Malcanthet's, since it is nearly word for word (if not totally) based on Paizo's version of her in Dragon 353. The Riders on the other hand..I guess that is yay for me. I wanted something that would spread the Rider's horror beyond their personal reach.

by **mercucio** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:48 pm

Kain Darkwind wrote:
mercucio wrote:
I'm not sure if you are referencing Enduring Life correctly in Death's entry. It doesn't grant you immunity to negative levels, it simply postones the penalties. As a result you'd still die should your negative levels equal your hit dice.

I referenced it correctly. Enduring Life's ability to postpone the penalties is vulnerable to Inexorable.

Then you might want to clarify Inexorable, since it only states it can overcome artificial and natural immunities. The benefit granted by Enduring Life is neither.

by **KingCrazyGenius** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:49 pm

By definition everything is either natural or unnatural.

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