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Maybe, maybe not. This 'version' is really nothing more than an update to PF rules. I made no real changes to it other than substituting out 'bow' for 'ranged weapon' in its stuff. If 145 hp is too high for it now, 135 hp was likely too high for it then, but I don't seem to remember anyone saying the arrow demon was 'over powered'.

18-19 Con is probably the ideal if you want to build it to Monster Creation Guidelines. Drops Fort save by 5 and reduces hp to 95.

Kain Darkwind wrote:Maybe, maybe not. This 'version' is really nothing more than an update to PF rules. I made no real changes to it other than substituting out 'bow' for 'ranged weapon' in its stuff. If 145 hp is too high for it now, 135 hp was likely too high for it then, but I don't seem to remember anyone saying the arrow demon was 'over powered'.

18-19 Con is probably the ideal if you want to build it to Monster Creation Guidelines. Drops Fort save by 5 and reduces hp to 95.

Everyone was probably busy wondering if it was too lawful or not.

Which is another decent point...their tactics are to put one guy in front to take a beating while the others unleash full attack hell from a distance, then switch him out via dimension door. High hp benefits such suicidal tactics.

And that's grand. But when their hit points are much higher than demons of the same or greater CR whose tactics involve jumping into melee and not tagging out, it's excessive.

Not really. HP is only one aspect of combat. When a succubus nails you with a DC 22 charm in a level where your will save is at best +7 and at worst +2 and you don't know which of the women in the village square is said succubus on account of her +27 bluff check and her shapechanging, you aren't going to worry about arrow demons.

I can't really see how that is relevant to the discussion at hand. Unless you're attempting to imply, in the most roundabout way you possibly could, that hit points are really the only thing the arrow demon has going for it, and that further more this is a desirable state of affairs.

Yeah but seriously, the succubus is a little ridiculous too. And by a little I mean a lot.

Well, duh. Succubae were supposed to be the most charismatic demons but WotC also wanted some low-CR demons so they could have a decent spread. Hence all demons having a bit too high ability scores for their HD/CR. Personally, I'd have started true demons no lower than CR 10, going up all the way to 24 for the biggest, sort of like dragons.

The level where your Will save is 'at best +7'......doesn't exist.

1st level good will save is +2. Iron will is +2. Starting possible Wisdom score is +5. And if you were a dwarf, you also get +2 vs spells. So the 'best possible' Will save vs charm at first level is an Iron Will dwarven cleric with 20 Wisdom for +11.

The level where your Will save is 'at worst +2' is....

3 Wisdom = -4. Bad Will save = +6 at 18th level.