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The Serge wrote:Here's a stand alone sketch of Orcus. I need some suggestions for a pose and feedback if he's scary enough (without maggots and crap crawling over him as that kind of stuff will be in the final. As always, these will not include other folks or much of a background... Think of them as pencil studies).

The Serge wrote:Here's another Orcus sketch. I'm hoping that this one comes a bit closer to what I see in my head. And most of yours.

The Serge wrote:A new Orcus sketch. I'm hoping this is getting close to a final.

Omegalith wrote:

The Serge wrote:A new Orcus sketch. I'm hoping this is getting close to a final.

Near perfect, but maybe make the head look a little more like an actual goat skull around the mouth area.

And for cripes sake give the man a loincloth.

WarDragon wrote:Still not fat enough; he should look like there's no possible way he could move under his own power, even though he can. And I don't like the flesh on his lower jaw.

Omegalith wrote:

WarDragon wrote:Still not fat enough; he should look like there's no possible way he could move under his own power, even though he can. And I don't like the flesh on his lower jaw.

You want him to look comical? Because seriously, that's what you seem to be describing.

Witch wrote:I disagree with the incredible degree of fat you describe, WD. He's not Behemoth.

WarDragon wrote:It should look disturbing. He looks like he should be a laughingstock, but is actually fast and powerful.

The Serge wrote:I don't think I'll be making him any fatter, WD. I've tried and, with my particular style, it just won't work without him looking completely idiotic. Not saying that I disagree with you (because I don't), but my style just doesn't allow for what you're asking.

As far as the "actual goat-skull," Orcus' head is only partially skeletal... If you "blacken" in the gaps in his jaw, you''ll find that he's very goat-like.

Okay. The next time around, I'm hoping it'll be the last Orcus... I'll also change the tail so it turns into bones halfway through. Any suggestions for poses? (This pose is based, in part, on the 1ed MM pose).

Selah wrote:Serge, I really like this last sketch of Orcus, except for the legs and arms - not a fan of them looking so muscle-bound. Take the definition out, make them fat and blubbery.

The wand looks awesome, but maybe give it a "fresh from the graveyard" look. Some lichen or moss on the skull, especially on the chin, would look awesome.

Mac 'n Cheese wrote:Ohh, I like this one.

I do agree with Selah, those legs do look a bit too muscular. Otherwise, you've got some awesome stuff.

Hey, does Orcus ever stab people with the exposed bones from his wings, or would that be too spider-like? I just like the mental imagery of him using them to skewer people like insects.

fafnir300 wrote:Here are a few ideas for the pics

Orcus - he looks good as you have him now, but i think he should have screaming faces on his belly.

keep up the good work!

The Serge wrote:New sketch of the Prince of Demons. I tried some new ideas with him. I figured that if his tentacles cause rot that they'd hiss and pop with some kind of gurgling, self-generating slime. As for the tail, I figured that it would be more visually interesting if they transform into squid-like tentacles surrounded by energy towards the end. I think I'm going to give the final classic (as opposed to my description of him) Demogorgon a mane ot tentacles along his neck and give him a more serpentine lower torso.

Thoughts?

Witch wrote:This is absolutely awesome, Serge.

Issabella wrote:*cowers* I particularly like the (its) left head, very well done!

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Ideal. I like the short necks...earlier pictures of Demogorgon have long necks, and the 3.5 slew has a human like neck...the in-between works nicely.

The faces could use a little work. I like where you're taking it, but the execution could be cleaned up a little. Probably more detail is needed.


I wonder how Demogorgon would look with a beard?

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Ideal. I like the short necks...earlier pictures of Demogorgon have long necks, and the 3.5 slew has a human like neck...the in-between works nicely.

My versions will all have the longer neck. I've always hated the shorter necks.

The faces could use a little work. I like where you're taking it, but the execution could be cleaned up a little. Probably more detail is needed.

That's why this is a sketch and not intended to be a final image. This is my first completed "classic" Demogorgon ever, so I wanted to see if I could get the heads and general build.

I wonder how Demogorgon would look with a beard?

Shut up.

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Ideal. I like the short necks...earlier pictures of Demogorgon have long necks, and the 3.5 slew has a human like neck...the in-between works nicely.

My versions will all have the longer neck. I've always hated the shorter necks.

I consider your version here to be 'middle necks'. A happy medium between the two.

I wonder how Demogorgon would look with a beard?

Shut up.

Palindrome wrote:This is great. Seriously-so far the best out of the three.

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:I consider your version here to be 'middle necks'. A happy medium between the two.

Really? Do you have a link to a "long-necked" Demogorgon?

You know you're curious.

You make me sick.

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:I consider your version here to be 'middle necks'. A happy medium between the two.

Really? Do you have a link to a "long-necked" Demogorgon?

Here

Pal's avatar.

This useless turd

And this one

(which by the way, if your Asmodeus doesn't look like this, I'll be disappointed.)

You know you're curious.

You make me sick.

Rugged bushy beard on one head, neatly trimmed beard on the other....

The Serge wrote:I think my Demogorgon's neck is about as long as Pal's avatar and the minature... It's just the way it's foreshortened.

Selah wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:(which by the way, if your Asmodeus doesn't look like this, I'll be disappointed.)

Agreed. Asmodeus and that beard are a match made in heaven. Or hell, if you prefer.

Serge, I thought I recalled Demogorgon's description suggesting that he was covered in excrement. Your version is only covered in awesome. Can we get an upgrade?

I think curly haired Graz'zt works.

I like the head and tail of the second Orcus pic. Someone was mentioning rolls of fat, and I agree that the body doesn't look disgustingly fat enough.

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Love Demogorgon. Don't love all this talk about excrement and maggots on him. When did demonic become synonomous with dirty and smelly? Sides, this is the Prince of Demons; the idea of anything touching him and not vanishing in a horribly painful way bothers me.

Omegalith wrote:

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Love Demogorgon. Don't love all this talk about excrement and maggots on him. When did demonic become synonomous with dirty and smelly? Sides, this is the Prince of Demons; the idea of anything touching him and not vanishing in a horribly painful way bothers me.

Seconded.

That said, I can totally see him allowing blood splatter to stay when he's in the middle of a fight. The only thing scarier than an enraged Demogorgon is one with fresh blood caked around his mouths and up to his armpits(tentaclepits? ) in gore.

You should draw him standing over a disembowled minion.

PAOLO wrote:Your Demogorgon is great. Probably you had a dream or a sudden inspiration by the Prince of Demons himself. By your own admission,

The Serge wrote:Admittedly, Demgorgon -- for whatever reason -- ended up far better than the other two.

Omegalith wrote:

PAOLO wrote:Probably you had a dream or a sudden inspiration by the Prince of Demons himself.

If that happened, the killings would make international headlines.

Palindrome wrote:

Omegalith wrote:

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Love Demogorgon. Don't love all this talk about excrement and maggots on him. When did demonic become synonomous with dirty and smelly? Sides, this is the Prince of Demons; the idea of anything touching him and not vanishing in a horribly painful way bothers me.

Seconded.

That said, I can totally see him allowing blood splatter to stay when he's in the middle of a fight. The only thing scarier than an enraged Demogorgon is one with fresh blood caked around his mouths and up to his armpits(tentaclepits? ) in gore.

You should draw him standing over a disembowled minion.

I have some other fairly gruesome ideas for what Demogorgon does to his victims, but I'm not sure if disemboweling is one of them.

Instead, why not have a victim of his that is partially disintegrating from Demogorgon's Rotting Touch, but they're laughing even as they're dying because he's driven them completely insane?

Omegalith wrote:

Palindrome wrote:

Omegalith wrote:

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Love Demogorgon. Don't love all this talk about excrement and maggots on him. When did demonic become synonomous with dirty and smelly? Sides, this is the Prince of Demons; the idea of anything touching him and not vanishing in a horribly painful way bothers me.

Seconded.

That said, I can totally see him allowing blood splatter to stay when he's in the middle of a fight. The only thing scarier than an enraged Demogorgon is one with fresh blood caked around his mouths and up to his armpits(tentaclepits? ) in gore.

You should draw him standing over a disembowled minion.

I have some other fairly gruesome ideas for what Demogorgon does to his victims, but I'm not sure if disemboweling is one of them.

Instead, why not have a victim of his that is partially disintegrating from Demogorgon's Rotting Touch, but they're laughing even as they're dying because he's driven them completely insane?

I was assuming that as soon as he lost his temper, the minions bowels would be spread over a wide area more quickly that most beings could percieve, rather than him actually having put any thought into the matter.

Still, that would require immunity to the rotting touch effect so you're probably right.

The Serge wrote:A sketch of Graz'zt... Without the six digits.

Glabrezubane wrote:Any particular reason you chose curly hair over spiky or straight?

The Serge wrote:

Glabrezubane wrote:Any particular reason you chose curly hair over spiky or straight?

There's something "boyish" and cute about curly hair, which I thought would be a nice contrast to the fact that Graz'zt is essentially a rapist. Plus, most of the devils have spikey or straight hair, and this would be a clear move away from that.

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Is the pommel and grip of his sword intended to look like a dripping penis?

Also, I'm not entirely certain that the loin cloth looks right...it looks like he's stuffing it with a cardboard box.

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Is the pommel and grip of his sword intended to look like a dripping penis?

Yes. I'm also trying to figure out something nasty for the crossguard. Initially, I was thinking of testicles, but that would never look right (err... relatively speaking).

Also, I'm not entirely certain that the loin cloth looks right...it looks like he's stuffing it with a cardboard box.

The loin cloth looks like crap. I'm trying to come up with something that will not stink of Belial and Fierana... I may go on-line and do a search for S&M cod-pieces.

WarDragon wrote:Serge, do you read Jack? Because that Orcus really reminds me of one the antagonists from that strip.

I second the abrupt, torn-off look for the neck. It should look like the flesh was peeled off of his head and hands, not withered or rotted. And make his torso fatter; it looks like he could still logically move under his own power.

As for Grazzt... while he is the Abyss's resident pretty boy, he still needs to look physically dangerous, perhaps even more so than Belial. Not quite pulling off that fine line, except when he shows his teeth. The one Dragon cover with him and Iggwilv is the best picture I've seen pull that off.

The Serge wrote:Although I like the WAR pic from DUNGEON, I always preferred a pretty boy image for Graz'zt rather than a sneering monster. I think that the monstrous features (the huge size, the extra digit, the horns on his head, and the teeth, and perhaps his clothes) should stand in stark contrast to his beauty.

WarDragon wrote:Oh, he should definitely be a sexy, refined sort of killer. I think the most disturbing element of Graz'zt is that you can never forget he's a literal monster, but can't help being attracted to him anyway. Even if you don't like men.

MythMage wrote:

WarDragon wrote:I think the most disturbing element of Graz'zt is that you can never forget he's a literal monster, but can't help being attracted to him anyway. Even if you don't like men.

I think this applies to the majority of powerful evil gods/cosmics with the sex/seduction portfolio, because otherwise you'd need to double up some of them to cover both genders. And beauty transcending gender seems appropriate for beings so defined by ideals.

WarDragon wrote:The "the don't like men" bit was the least important part of that quote.

MythMage wrote:So?

I think the whole thing applies to most evil gods/cosmics of sex.

Glabrezubane wrote:

MythMage wrote:So?

I think the whole thing applies to most evil gods/cosmics of sex.

Only evil? I'd say this goes for pretty much all gods/cosmics of sex/beauty. I think, however, that WD was putting that in comparison, with the more humanoid Demon Princes/Demon Lords/Archfiends in general, or even a category broader than that.

WarDragon wrote:Are you calling Sune a "monster," Glab?

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:

WarDragon wrote:Are you calling Sune a "monster," Glab?

I think your monsterous comment was lost to the depths of time, WD. You might as well give it up as gone.

The Serge wrote:

MythMage wrote:So?

I think the whole thing applies to most evil gods/cosmics of sex.

Actually, I think the whole thing applies to most gods/cosmics of any alignment and certain "physical" portfolios.

MythMage wrote:By "the whole thing", I meant all of WD's post that I quoted, the monster part in addition to the attractive part:

MythMage wrote:

WarDragon wrote:I think the most disturbing element of Graz'zt is that you can never forget he's a literal monster, but can't help being attracted to him anyway. Even if you don't like men.

I think this applies to the majority of powerful evil gods/cosmics with the sex/seduction portfolio, because otherwise you'd need to double up some of them to cover both genders. And beauty transcending gender seems appropriate for beings so defined by ideals.

WarDragon wrote:My main point was that you should emphasize the dichotomy between his fundamentally sexual nature, and his fundamentally evil, terrifying nature. I thought I was being clear, but apparently not. *shrug*

MythMage wrote:Graz'zt... the face shot on the left is quite good, and very appropriate. I don't like the full-body view as much. His nose and lips seem too thin, his hair is just bad, and his clothes look awkwardly placed/designed. The sword is thematically appropriate, I suppose, but seems oddly explicit for most D&D purposes, even compared to other sex fiends. I would at least not make it dripping.

Rikandur Azebol wrote:MM, awkward outlook of Graz'zt clothes could be such because it is a demon.

Serge, I like Your second take on Orcus ... but, personally, I would make his belly more obscenely fat and flappy. Also, I would try to make his skull to somehow be ... more angry ? Somehow his skeletal expression seem too "peaceful" for me. Perhaps hateful fires in the eyesockets and their shape more like eyes of an anger twisted face. Nice wand ... and tail & hands are cool.

Graz'zt ... I like face on the left, IMO it talks volumes about him being a terrible beast so much more than Orcus's skull-face, congratulations !
If You dislike his loin-guard ... perhaps change it to one that could be seen in Blackadder series, for example, that fakes erection ? IMO it would fit Your version of Graz'zt perfectly. The whole-body on the right doesn't make Graz'zt manly enough IMO, too boyish. As for his sword hilt ... I mildly disagree. It is certain that Graz'zt rapes some of it's victims with the sword, but I strongly doubt that demon would modify the weapon for the victim's "comfort" and "safety". Unless it's the sword used by Dark Prince when one of fiend's Chosen is "rewarded".

fafnir300 wrote:Here are a few ideas for the pics

Graz'zt- lose the dripping penis for the grip. It's just weird to see Graz'zt who is straight (from what i know) holding a penis. Also have you seen Paolo's Grazzt? maybe that'll help.

I'm not sure if this is the same Paolo from this site.

keep up the good work!

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:

fafnir300 wrote:Graz'zt- lose the dripping penis for the grip. It's just weird to see Graz'zt who is straight (from what i know) holding a penis.

Graz'zt isn't straight. Not only does that term hold barely any meaning to a demon capable of changing form and gender at will, but he has an abusive love relationship with his demon lord servant Vuron.

Most demon princes and I would say most outsiders in general lack the humanoid ideas of 'straight' and 'gay', because they lack the biological imperative that drives sexual reproduction.

veekie wrote:Figure a demon would copulate with just about anything if it serves their purposes, or if they felt like it. Whatever gender, species, alive, dead, undead or inanimate are all perfectly good there.

The Serge wrote:As I will be doing some images for Horrors, I've gone ahead and sketched up my idea of how balors should appear. In the end, there will actually be a variety of appearances, but this is the "classic" balor from 1ed. Since it lacks color, the dark portions are smoke and charred "bone" and the ligher portions are flames and magma-like "flesh."

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Follow it up with a Mountain Demon?

Issabella wrote:Very nice. My mental picture of Balors where always a bit more "muscular" with a bit more feral hunch over. Making people underestimate them as brutes, despite their fine (thought twisted) minds.

But very nicely done Serge, thank you for sharing!

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Follow it up with a Mountain Demon?

Sure, probably this weekend (along with a few others...).

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Not a bad image by any measure, but "raised" as I was on 3.0 and 3.5 I'm trapped with that imagery of the balor; a hulking brutish hodgepodge of animal features and fire. Made for a nice way to diversify between devils and demons; devils are gargoyle humanoids while demons tend to look like numerous animals meshed together.

Omegalith wrote:Hmm... Needs wider shoulders.

Oh wait, I just remembered the 1st edition picture, nevermind.

It's a good drawing, but it seems to be more of a Balrog than a Balor, with the whole "Fire and shadow" thing going on. Balors tend to have more normal skin in every version I've seen, though they were already a clear rippoff and this helps with the Balor/Pit Fiend distinction.

Out of curiosity, how do you think Balor the Balor looks?

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Balor probably looks more like a balor than any other balor that has ever balored.

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Follow it up with a Mountain Demon?

Sure, probably this weekend (along with a few others...).

S'been a month, Serge. Where's my mountain demon picture?

Lobsopdoy wrote:I love the Balor, Serge.

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:

The Serge wrote:

My Lord and Master Darkwind wrote:Follow it up with a Mountain Demon?

Sure, probably this weekend (along with a few others...).

S'been a month, Serge. Where's my mountain demon picture?

I have a few sketches, but they all SUCK big time.

I'm taking a pair of classes this semester alongside my job, so I don't know how soon I'll get around to drawing much for a while...

MartinRussellSchmidt wrote:I love that Graz'zt picture Serge, was it meant to be reminiscent of Caligula?

KingCrazyGenius wrote:Oh man I had forgotten about your pretty boy Graz'zt.

As for Caligula, didn't he have a neck beard?

Demogorgon remains my favorite of these sketches.