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The demon princes are far beyond the atrocities and demon lords in their power and the threat they represent to Creation. Each is responsible for vastly destructive acts of random malevolence aimed just as often at The Abyss and its myriad demons as they are at the rest of existence.

This is the list of demon princes that will be covered in Horrors of The Abyss.

Apollyon, the Dark Angel, Demon Prince of Destruction
Azazel, Demon Prince of the Desert
Balam, Demon Prince of Carnage
Baphomet, Demon Prince of the Endless Maze
Behemoth, Demon Princess of Gluttony
Demorgorgon, Devourer of Souls
Diabolos, Lord of Lost Lore, Demon Prince of Prophecy
Fraz-Urb'Luu, Demon Prince of Illusions
Flauros, the Son of Suns
Graz'zt, the Dark Prince, Demon Prince of Shadows
Juiblex, the Demon Prince of Nothing, The Faceless Lord
Lolth, Demon Queen of Spiders, the Weaver of Lies
Neron, Demon Prince of Blasphemy
Orcus, The Goat, Demon Prince of Undeath
Obox-Ob, Demon Prince of Desolation
Pale Night, Demon Queen of Ravens, Mother of Demons
Pazuzu, Demon Prince of Abyssal Air
Rahab, Demon Prince of the Lightless Depths
Vuron, Demon Prince of Light
Yeenoghu, Demon Prince of Carrion, Demon Prince of Gnolls
Zuggtmoy, Demon Queen of Parasites

I suppose I was spoiled by the 'Faces of Faerie' thread, but is there any chance you'd be willing to elaborate on some of these beings?

If you remember that Wizards calls Rahab Dagon, there's at least thirteen of those you can easily research yourself.

Also: Neron? Really?

Urizen wrote:I suppose I was spoiled by the 'Faces of Faerie' thread, but is there any chance you'd be willing to elaborate on some of these beings?

I will, feel free to ask questions.

In what ways has Diabolos' backstory been changed from here, and what is Pale Night's? I remember her having a higher CR than Asmodeus a few years ago, though don't recall why.

Urizen wrote:In what ways has Diabolos' backstory been changed from here, and what is Pale Night's? I remember her having a higher CR than Asmodeus a few years ago, though don't recall why.

I'll provide a hint as far as the latter's backstory is concerned: Pale Night predates the malefircareim by far.

Endless eons before endless eons ago, Pale Night was already hideously ancient.

Omegalith wrote:If you remember that Wizards calls Rahab Dagon, there's at least thirteen of those you can easily research yourself.

Not necessarily. Although most of these demon princes will be heavily based upon their "real world" counterparts, we also have to take into account their history in D&D, which -- in most cases -- is largely divorced from the real world besides the name. For example, our Baphomet will be different from both the (various) real world demons of the same name and the D&D demon.

Also bear in mind that many of these demons have divergent real world appearances, personalities, portfolios, and histories. This adds an extra level of complexity to how they are translated in our material.

Also: Neron? Really?

Really.

Why, is there something wrong?

Urizen wrote:In what ways has Diabolos' backstory been changed from here, and what is Pale Night's? I remember her having a higher CR than Asmodeus a few years ago, though don't recall why.

Many of the "original DF" demon prince flavor will be overhauled. We do not have final write ups for many of them, so I can't answer your questions.

As for Pale Night... If you check out the official DF/Godspell Campaign Setting timeline, you'll see references to the earliest demons: yaldabaoth. These critters were probably at least as powerful as malefircareim (for my money, and this isn't necessarily going to be the official position, I'd say they were on the whole stronger than the hellspawn) Most were wiped out or sealed away well before the first gods rose up and only the most ancient and powerful beings in the Cosmos even remember them. Pale Night was among this number. In short, our version of Pale Night is older than the 3ed "official" version. This was determined not so much to compete with them, but because we wanted to offer more diversity in our demonic lineup and place Pale Night in a position that her original DF writeup warrented. I suspect that Pale Night will be one of the top two or three strongest demon princes when it's all said and done.

The thirteen I referred to were those I recognised as having detailed write-ups from previous D&D sources of the top of my head.

As for Neron, the two places I've seen the name are in reference to Emperor Nero or a demon from the DC universe. A quick web search turned up little else, so it just seemed like a slightly strange choice to me. *shrug*

Awesome. Can't wait for this.

Do any of the demon princes come close to rivaling Demogorgon in sheer power? Im not familiar with Pale Night, and a few others.

Omegalith wrote:The thirteen I referred to were those I recognised as having detailed write-ups from previous D&D sources of the top of my head.

Right. I just wanted to clarify that our approach will be a melding of the real-world stuff and the TSR/WotC material, which means that looking in either arena exclusively will not give the full picture so far as DF is concerned. Which is a good thing!

As for Neron, the two places I've seen the name are in reference to Emperor Nero or a demon from the DC universe. A quick web search turned up little else, so it just seemed like a slightly strange choice to me. *shrug*

I wasn't annoyed with your reaction, just curious.

As for Nero, that is an intentional reference. The Mark of the Beast and all that...

Starsunder wrote:Awesome. Can't wait for this.

Do any of the demon princes come close to rivaling Demogorgon in sheer power? Im not familiar with Pale Night, and a few others.

Good question. I don't know how things will pan out. Right now, the answer would be an emphatic, "NO." Pale Night would be the only other demon prince who would come close and I don't think her old stats would make her much of a threat. Even the old Orcus and Graz'zt stats paled beside Demogorgon (all my fault, to be sure).

I do know there're talks to recalibrate Demogorgon so his status as Prince of Demons is a little more contested when he's on others' territories. I personally think that Demogorgon should be able to go into any lower ranked demon prince's layer and beat it down if he were so inclined, but that he would find himself struggling in a fight against Orcus in Thanatos or Graz'zt in Azzagrat.

We'll have to wait and see. I am curious to hear feedback on the issue since it's one that we've debated at length relatively recently while trying to determine if we would incorporate the Savage Tide campaign into our cosmological history.

Starsunder wrote:Awesome. Can't wait for this.

Do any of the demon princes come close to rivaling Demogorgon in sheer power? Im not familiar with Pale Night, and a few others.

How close do you consider 'close'? Graz'zt and Orcus have been thorns in his side for ages. Other ancient demon lords may also rival his might. Apollyon's destructive goals would be worse for the multiverse than Demogorgon's in some senses. Et cetera.

The Serge wrote: Good question. I don't know how things will pan out. Right now, the answer would be an emphatic, "NO." Pale Night would be the only other demon prince who would come close and I don't think her old stats would make her much of a threat. Even the old Orcus and Graz'zt stats paled beside Demogorgon (all my fault, to be sure).

I do know there're talks to recalibrate Demogorgon so his status as Prince of Demons is a little more contested when he's on others' territories. I personally think that Demogorgon should be able to go into any lower ranked demon prince's layer and beat it down if he were so inclined, but that he would find himself struggling in a fight against Orcus in Thanatos or Graz'zt in Azzagrat.

We'll have to wait and see. I am curious to hear feedback on the issue since it's one that we've debated at length relatively recently while trying to determine if we would incorporate the Savage Tide campaign into our cosmological history.

Well, personally, I feel that based on what I know Demogorgon should be the single strongest demon prince in terms of sheer, personal power. I would go so far as to say that with the exception of a few of the demon princes (Orcus, Graz'zt, Pale Night, Apollyon perhaps, maybe one or two others), he could beat the mortal shiz outta them even on their home layer. I believe that he's always been portrayed classically as head and shoulders above most of the others (although I do realize this doesent necessarily carry over to HotA; just sayin).

Also, on a seperate note, im curious as to the decision to go with Rahab rather than Dagon. I personally like Dagon better; I believe it just sounds more ominous. Just curious.

Kain Darkwind wrote: How close do you consider 'close'? Graz'zt and Orcus have been thorns in his side for ages. Other ancient demon lords may also rival his might. Apollyon's destructive goals would be worse for the multiverse than Demogorgon's in some senses. Et cetera.

Well, by close, I mean could actually be a real threat to his life in a physical or magical altercation. I realize that Graz'zt and Orcus have traditionally been his most hated foes; I was just wondering if any other single demon prince wielded as much personal power.

Starsunder wrote:Also, on a seperate note, im curious as to the decision to go with Rahab rather than Dagon. I personally like Dagon better; I believe it just sounds more ominous. Just curious.

We already have a Dagon in Gates of Hell. While D&D has given the explanation that this was forced upon Hell-Dagon as a punishment, making it harder to summon him, the design team here decided they'd rather not double up.

Omegalith wrote: We already have a Dagon in Gates of Hell. While D&D has given the explanation that this was forced upon Hell-Dagon as a punishment, making it harder to summon him, the design team here decided they'd rather not double up.

D'oh! Completely forgot that Dagon was in GoH. My bad.

Starsunder wrote:

Omegalith wrote: We already have a Dagon in Gates of Hell. While D&D has given the explanation that this was forced upon Hell-Dagon as a punishment, making it harder to summon him, the design team here decided they'd rather not double up.

D'oh! Completely forgot that Dagon was in GoH. My bad.

Omegalith's explanation is correct for why we decided to use Rahab instead of Dagon. After an initial flavor followed by a mechanical build, Rahab was the name that we agreed upon after some discussion and we've stayed with it ever since.

Is HoA going to cover demon lords like Chernovog, or would he be considered one of the atrocites?

Based on his classical gargolyic apperaance and propensity with fire, Chernavog (or Chernabog) more clearly fits in with diabolical concepts than demonic ones by most estimations. I personally interpreted Chernabog as a unique Nightshade (a type of powerful undead native to the Plane of Shadow), due to his associations with the undead and darkness and his weakness in light, though I am also known for going against the grain just for kicks.

Thanks I thought he was a demon lord of evil druids and evil fey. Is there a demon lord devoted to corrupting nature?

Tchernabog, as is his proper name, is the pre-christian slavic deity of all things evil, from death to mere distress. that last part always kinda amused me.

wheshtek wrote:Thanks I thought he was a demon lord of evil druids and evil fey. Is there a demon lord devoted to corrupting nature?

There's no single demon lord or demon prince that's dedicated to corrupting all aspects of nature. However, there are several demon lords and princes that attack particular elements of it. Zuggtmoy, for example, disrupts nature by promoting parasitism and spawning endless varieties of new, parasitic life. Yeenoghu attacks another element of nature by promoting cannibalism and carrion-devouring in life forms that would not otherwise do it, as well as attacking elements of civilization conceptually.

What about Babylona, the Queen of Lust mentioned in The Gates Of Hell? I noticed that the demon lords of lust haven't appeared on this list, and found it kind of odd...