The Existential Habbalite

Daimon puts Mazpatiel and Elymius in the same room and watches the carnage.

Pat explains to Elymius that God killed his cat because Elymius is evil and deserved punishment.

Sephar says "You know... I sometimes wonder if Pat ever asked Sephar to possess his Vessel and rip apart a Habbie that was starting to push emotions onto him?"

Elymius explains to Pat that the concept of God is inherently absurd, and the only reality we have is our immediate experiences.

Elymius, Habbalite of the Non-God.

Sephar says "Likely not, but it's was an odd thought."

Sephar says "Woah, a Habbie that doesn't think it's an angel?"

Sephar says "Cool."

Pat quietly points out to Elymius that it is within the power of the strong to inflict their reality on the weak, and that the Hand of Judgment is significantly stronger than a deluded demon.

Daimon says "Elymius believes he's an Angel in a godless universe, and therefore punishes people so they can accept the absurdity of their existance."

Sephar says "Existential Punisher..."

Sephar says "What does not kill you will make you stronger?"

Elymius points out that he can successfully explain the pointlessness of human existance while leaving the target alive to contemplate. Unlike Judgment.

Pat makes a note that Elymius is attempting to inflict his own observations on a world that does not always share them, and as such is bound to encounter resistance.

Elymius observes that the belief in the lack of God is on the rise in the enlightened 20th century. On the other hand, a faith in the system of government that supports Judgment is going to Hell in a Handbasket, as it were.

Pat inquires if Elymius feels personally responsible for such.

Elymius says "I simply encourage a stronger, more healthy outlook on the harsh realities of the universe. Call it a civil service to mankind."

Pat says "Ah. So, you admit to having fallen prey to another's reality?"

Elymius says "Hardly. I've fallen prey to no one else's reality."

Pat says "Then you /are/ the one responsible for the entire Existentialist movement?"

Pat says "Bravo."

Elymius quirks an eyebrow. "That would be quite a trick, I think."

Pat says "Yes or no."

Elymius says "No."

Pat nods. "In this world, one either creates one's own reality, or else dwells within anothers. Since you have admitted to not creating the philosophy you espouse, you dwell in another's. QED."

Elymius frowns and looks angry. "I do not live in my own reality. I live in the reality which was left for us in the pointless universe, and do my part to awaken humanity to it. It might be painful, but those that survive come out stronger."

Sephar says "When did philosophy equate with reality?"

Pat says "Who's reality is it, then?"

Sephar ahems and nibbles Cheeto's more quietly.

Elymius says "Mine. Yours. Everyone's."

Pat says "There is a word, you know, for a collective reality."

Elymius says "A mass delusion which is ended by someone putting cyanide in the fruit drink?"

Pat smiles. "God."

Elymius says "Or simply a mass delusion."

Pat says "And you, I suppose, are the only one with clear vision?"

Elymius says "I have been fortunate to realize the realities of the world we live in."

Pat says "A truly fortunate minority, to be the only one to see things so."

Elymius says "I am not alone, of course. And I help people to see the way."

Pat says "A true prophet of the empty god."

Elymius says "There is no God. There never was a God. The concept of God is just something we use to justify our actions to each other without having to take responsibility for them. There is nothing after death, either. God is a fallacy, and our only rea

lity is our ability to choose to live our lives or end them, and the moments we exist in."

Pat says "You haven't been home in some time, have you."

Elymius says "I return to the celestial planes exactly as much as is required of me and no more."

Pat says "And I suppose, when you return, you wear your blinders to avoid the sight of those who would cast doubt upon your beliefs."

Elymius says "They are merely the weak puppetting a false belief in an attempt to justify their pathetic existances."

Pat says "Puppetting a false belief. Puppetting it well enough that there is no difference between the reality of that 'falsehood' and their expectations. Interesting."

Elymius says "They have had thousands of years to get their lies in order."

Pat says "And you're still practicing. I see."

Elymius darkens. "I am hardly 'practicing'."

Pat says "You can't have perfected it. There is still opposition."

Elymius says "It is not my problem if there are still fools in the world."

Pat says "I would think it is."

Elymius says "I can only show one person the truth of the absurdity of their existance, one at a time."

Pat says "Of course. No one is perfect, after all."

Elymius says "But one can approach perfection through enlightenment."

Sephar remembers Azazel saying: "That's how we do it, 1 at a time."

Pat says "Which perfection, though? You deny the existence of perfection denied."

Elymius says "I deny the existance of a moral crutch in exchange for absolute reality."

Pat says "I don't believe in an absolute reality."

Pat says "I believe in a communal reality."

Elymius grins a little. "Then you believe that reality may be perceived subjectively."

Pat says "I believe that there is no choice but for it to be perceived subjectively. Where we differ is that you deny any existence of something higher than perception."

Elymius says "Correct. I deny the existance of a so-called Higher Power."

Pat says "For everyone."

Elymius says "If it's reality, why should denial of a higher power not be for everyone?"

Pat says "Because that's hardly subjective."

Pat says "Has it occured to you, Elymius, that perhaps you have no God because you refuse to?"

Pat says "If you created your reality, then the bloody hands are yours."

Elymius says "I have no God because no God exists, and the belief in a paltry faith is simply a method to brush all your moral guilts and platitudes under a rug of subjective quantitized religion. The belief in God is a moral crutch used by the weak to ex

plain away their imperfections."

Pat says "You're repeating yourself."

Elymius says "You're purposefully steering the conversation in circles."

Pat says "I am attempting to find a resolution to points I do not feel have been adequately explained. Namely the conflict between your declaration that your reality is your creation, and your blanket assurance that no God exists."

Elymius says "The belief in God accepts that reality is a creation of a Watchmaker, and all powerful being which made the universe and drives the engine of life. I contend that such a being, such a Watchmaker, does not in fact exist, and that the subjecti

ve experience is the only known reliable reality one has at their disposal."

Pat says "And those whose subjective reality includes such a Watchmaker are clearly deluded, since you are demonstrably infallible in your perceptions of Creation."

Elymius says "I am merely correct."

Pat says "Or so you believe."

Elymius says "Until I am proven otherwise. There are no arguments which successfully prove the existance of God which cannot be proven to also be the NON-existance of God."

Pat says "I suppose second-hand testimony is unacceptable?"

Elymius says "Second hand testimony is still just that - second hand testimony."

Pat says "And if an interview could be arranged?"

Elymius says "An interview - with GOD - can be arranged? That's like saying the color of God's toenails. Somehow I doubt it."

Pat says "Assuming it could. Would you look into His face and still inform Him that He does not exist?"

Elymius says "If such an interview existed, then I would philosophically be at a loss. But no such thing can be done."

Pat says "On whose declaration?"

<<OOC>> Pat blows all his Essence and attempts to summon God.

<<GAME>> Pat rolls the d666 and gets 2 4 CHECK: 5.

<<OOC>> Pat says "Ah well."

Elymius says "On the declaration that interviews with God are reserved to the hopelessly delusional and feverishly insane who are locked away from society."

Pat says "Ah. Well, we'll find you a nice padded room, and you'll be put on the list."

Elymius actually laughs. "I'm a long way from a padded room."

At your table, Pat wonders what happens if a 111 is rolled on an attempt to summon God.

Pat says "Perhaps you should consider changing that, if it is a prerequisite for speaking with God."

At your table, Daimon imagines God showing up and telling Elymius, "Not only do I exist, but your hair is bad, too."

Elymius says "There is no God to talk to except in the minds of the delusionally psychotic and the hopelessly manic."

Pat says "I grant you that belief."

Elymius says "And the sane and the strong require no such crutch."

At your table, Daimon imagines Elymius rolling 111 on a resonance roll.

At your table, Daimon imagining him suddenly wandering around going, 'I can be cool AND objective.'

Pat says "Why do you define it as a crutch?"

Elymius says "Faith is a tool for the week to be able to explain away all their bigotry and guilt under the auspices of 'God's Will'."

Pat says "And how do you explain it?"

Elymius says "Weak humans blaming the acts of other weak humans on a non-existant deity."

Pat says "Alright. That's them. What about /you/?"

Elymius says "I'm not weak."

Pat says "Of course not."

Pat says "But why do you do the things you do?"

Elymius says "I am removing the weakness from others, as well."

Pat says "On whose authority?"

Elymius says "My gift to humanity."

Pat says "How generous of you. To dictate so benevolently, to give your gift to all, heedless of their mind. Why, it sounds almost divine."

Elymius snorts.

Pat smiles.

Elymius says "Hardly."

Pat says "No?"

Elymius says, "No."

Pat says "And if some one were to cover his insecurities and doubt with the firm declaration that there was No God, would that not also be a crutch?"

<<OOC>> Sephar eyes the fact that Elymius is a Kobalite...

Pat says "Does intent mean nothing?"

Elymius says "I am not covering insecurities and doubt."

Pat says "Deep down, Elymius, everyone doubts."

Elymius says "In this I do not doubt. Nor am I insecure, and certainly not weak."

Pat says "Again, I grant you that belief."

Elymius says "And it's beyond belief into the realm of fact."

Pat says "Fact? By whose measure?"

Elymius says "Emperical philosophical proof."

Pat says "Elaborate."

Elymius says "You can say that God made the universe. But you have to ask, who made God? You can say that God supports moral belief, but why does one need God as an intermediary between themselves and moral acts, except as an intellectual crutch? You can

say that God created Man like him, but why did He create Good and Evil except as some sort of entertaining Passion Play? There is no proof of God. He won't just show up and appear _bam_ and explain the universe. God does not exist. God is just an abstract

concept devised by Mankind in which to explain away their failings instead of accepting their failings and becoming stronger from them."

Pat says "And how do you explain the fact that there was a Heaven before there was Man?"

Elymius says "Cosmological evolution."

Pat says "Pardon?"

Elymius says "It was the initial portion of the universe to evolve. Cosmological evolution."

Pat says "So it existed before Man could create it."

Elymius says "There is much that existed before Man could create it."

Pat says "You're contradicting yourself."

Elymius says "I never said that Man _created_ the world. I said that the only reality that we could believe was the one which we subjectively experienced."

Pat says "You said that man devised God."

Elymius says "Yes, I did say that."

Pat says "But if God existed before Man, there is a contradiction."

Elymius says "You assume that some deity created Heaven."

Pat says "It is the only reality I have experienced."

Elymius says "Then you need to get out more."

Pat says "I could say the same to you."

Elymius says "You could. It is physically possible."

Pat says "Would you take heed of it, if I did?"

Elymius says "Do you have certain experiences that you would care to share?"

Pat says "Just advice."

Elymius says "I'm game."

Pat says "Take a year off."

Pat says "And spend that year seeing God."

Elymius hehs quietly. "Then I'll end up as insane as Keros, wandering around blathering about Messiahs in Iowa or Omaha or whereever."

Pat says "Would you call me insane?"

Elymius considers for a long moment. "An enemy, yes. Insane, no."

Pat says "I have seen God every day for half a millenium. And I remain as sane as possible. I doubt you would find anything different as the result."

Elymius grins a little cruely. "And so what does God say to you, oh Seer of a Deity?"

Pat smiles. "Not a thing."

Elymius snorts. "It doesn't do you much good now, does it then. Not even good lotto picks."

Pat lifts an eyebrow. "Doesn't do good? Is this a matter of profit and cost?"

Elymius says "Everything is a matter of weights and balances."

Pat says "I see."

Pat says "Well then. The cost, quite simply put, is belief. The benefits are nil."

Elymius says "It seems to be that humans get quite a few benefits out of religion. They get to purge themselves of their sin instead of accepting it as their own. They get to heap their redemption from their dead mutilated icon. They get to be _weak_, and

that is the ultimate fallacy. Life is basically pointless and absurd. God is a crutch with which people use to fill up the space so they do not have to face that absurdity."

Pat says "They receive judgment and absolution."

Pat says "Rather than the need to turn their evil into pride."

Elymius says "Do they?"

Pat says "Yes."

Elymius says "They get to be part of a predetermined system, you mean."

Pat says "Perhaps."

Elymius says "The human is born. It lives a generic and unimpressive life. Maybe the human cheats on its wife a little, or embezzles a little money. It dies in some horribly long, slow, painful manner - diabetes, cancer. And then it's Judged by us. And it

goes to Hell. Where was the point in its life? Nowhere. Its life was absurd. It only existed as part of the system. At least I teach it to be strong and take responsibility for it's actions."

Pat says "It doesn't always go to Hell, Elymius."

Elymius says "No? Oh, I disagree."

Pat says "I've seen the Gates, Elymius."

Elymius says "So have I. The sheer magnitude of the flow of souls should give you a feel for the lack of point to the lives of Humans who revel in their weakness."

Pat says "I think we speak of different Gates."

Elymius says "They both indicate an end."

Pat says "Yes."

Elymius says "And then you have to ask, and what did the human do, and was there any point to it's life?"

Pat says "That is not my place to answer."

Elymius snorts. "Of course not."

Pat says "Of course not. I have my place."

Elymius says "And your place is to be subservient and weak in the face of your so-called God."

Pat says "Subservient, yes."

Elymius says "And weak."

Pat says "No."

Elymius says, "If you say so. Excuse me if I disagree."

Pat says "Of course." He rises. "Good evening, Elymius. Keep my suggestion in mind. You could use a vacation."

Elymius says, "Maybe."

Pat nods and walks off.