InterChange on
Project II (1/31/95)

To return to the Part Two page, click here.

Wayne Butler:
I intend for this conference to be a place where we can share "war" stories of getting started on Project II. Please tell us what virtual community you have joined, why you joined it, what you have learned so far about it, and what you still need to learn more about.

Jaime Ross:
So far I have not had a lot of time to join a community. I just fooled around on a couple last week, but they were the hobbie type...#soccer. This weekend I was really going to spend a lot of time and find a good community but for some reason I could not get into anything almost the entire weekend. So I am a little far behind. Does anyone know why I could not get into anything... including irc, pine and all the other stuff.

Nicole Cooklin:
Considering my lack of time this past week, due to not only the reading in here, but also my other classes and relatives comming to visit this past weekend, I am not getting very far with this!!! I have began looking at USENET groups, but I can't narrow it down to one that really looks interesting. HELP!!!!!

Stephen Chim:
I have chosen 3 USENET newsgroups for preliminary observation. They are namely, alt.bionet, sci.bio, alt.self-improve. After the preliminary observation for a couple of days, I think I will probably choose sci.bio because I am interested in biology in the first place. Second, that members of that newsgroup are having some meaningful discussion. They are not just casual chat about hobbies. I think sci.bio is a good choice because it possess of the features of a VIRTUAL COMMUNITY.

Stephen Chim:
Kevin, since IFS has been quite erratic recently, you'd better use a floppy diskette for safety. Anyway, I think we should talk after class to see whether there is anything that I can help.

Amanda Read:
I have not had too much luck with project II so far. I cannot find a community that I am really interested in. I have joined a few different communities throught the IRC but they were pretty close to terrible. I am not sure what subject matter I am looking to discuss as I am someone of terrible indecision. I have tried a few spanish speaking channels but I did not have much luck with good responses from the members. I don't think that my spanish is that bad but maybe it is? I am looking for suggestions - anything. Thank you!

Eric Rosenfeld:
I've joined the virtual community of "phishnet." Phish is a band that has a huge following, and a very extensive mail group on the internet. I've been a member of this mailgroup for a few months, and have been able to get a lot of useful information, such as tour dates, setlists, etc.

Kevin Tiernan:
I am having a lot of trouble getting on usenet. Every time it says there is not enough memory to open all messages. I was planning on doing my project on cars. Since there are several different groups devoted to different aspects I thought I could get a full range of views.

Kelly Kloustin:
Personally, I find it hard to write about 2 weeks worth of research when you've only done 1 week of research. I'm just getting the people on the channel to get comfortable with me,they're not about to divulge any juicy secrets with a newcomer like myself when i've only been on it for about 5 days.

Jesse Ackles:
I have been using the irc quite frequently lately. I tried it out because it seemed like it could be fun, and it has been (for the most part), especially angering quite a few people and getting banned from a channel or two. I have realized that, generally, folks on the irc are willing to help out us "newbies" and give us advice (or even programs, like someone gave me last night!). It almost mimics every day conversation-until you get "lag", where your response time to and from the other people on the same channel starts getting ridiculously long and you might as well be sending each other e-mail. It doesn't usually last very long though. I have met some very interesting people over irc, along with some not-so-interesting people, but on the whole it has been a lot of fun.

Kelly Kloustin:
I have joined an irc channel that is not related to my field of interest because the time that I'm available observe these channels (usually around 10pm) there isn't too much talk about academia,or education, because I have looked. So...I choose a channel that had a lot of u of mich users on it. Bytalking with them, they can give me insider information about stuff here at u of m as well as good tips about the irc adn other internet stuff. LAst night I was chatting with some other fellow wolverines and we even decided to meet face to face, so I can literally meet new people here as well as learn

Dana Reichman:
nicole- I will try to find a newsgroup or something tonight and i should be able to read past messages (right?) Anyway maybe I can make some preliminary analyses of the types of interactions. what do you think?

Stephen Chim:
Hey, Nicole. In order to "narrow down" your choice, the first thing that you can do is to filter out all those newsgroups that talk about non-sense. Next you can further narrow down your choice to some newsgroups that posses the features of a virtual community. At least, the members should be responding to some of the the posted news and thus interacting with each other.

Nicole Cooklin:
I agree with Todd, I don't think those of you that are thinking about analyzing an IRC channel are going to have alot to work with. It seems like almost every IRC channel I log on to ends up being primarily social.

Dana Reichman:
I have explored different IRC channels but have not found one of particular significance or academic interest. I could use some suggestions because finding a conference to observe.

Wayne Butler:
I notice that some of you have been focussing on usenet or IRC. Don't forget, there are hundreds of moos and listservs. Our Moo team last time gave us a gopher address where one can get a directory of moos. Also, the web page for the class on the WWW offers hot links to a number of resources that will give you information on how to find and join interesting listservs. And, of course, this class itself constitutes a virtual community of sorts. Although we get together face to face in class, we also communicate via our infohighway mailgroup and on these InterChanges. I have the transcripts from the first InterChange we did, and I will make transcripts of this one and all future ones. So, those documents about the virtual community of our class could be useful to some of you, too.

Vanessa Liou:
I cruised around the irc for a little while...i found it rather difficult to find a channel that discusses my academic interests. I did, however, find groups outside of this area where I had several worthwhile conversations. Little of what they talked about related to the reason for the channel in the first place.

Paul Fau:
I could probably use some advice on how to get to some channels that woud spark some kind of interest.

Nicole Cooklin:
I have narrowed it down some, but it seems like every time I begin REALLY looking at one newsgroup indepth, it ends up being non-interesting, or lacking much activity!! I guess I'll just have to keep trying.

Jesse Ackles:
V: I know, the question was mostly directed toward Dr. Butler. Thanks though.

Todd Dubinsky:
I think it is easier to analyze a newsgroup rather than an IRC channel. This is because when you join a newsgroup, all of the previous messages for the last few weeks are available and all of the the future one are stored in a very nice format accessible from Nuntius. With the IRC, unless you connect via modem and have text capturing abilities, it is very hard to keep track of. If you don't log on to a newsgroup for a day, no big deal, log on and all of the messages will still be there : ).

Stephen Chim:
Kevin, if there is still any problem in setting up your preference file, I am here to help. The diskette with all those preset configuration is with me right now. If you like, you can take it after class. I would be grateful to help you.

Jesse Ackles:
Is it necessary to join an existing channel on irc? I would very much like to create my own and see what happens.

Kevin Tiernan:
Stephen I would like to try for some reason it won't work through my IFS account. Thanks

Kathleen Soo Hoo:
I would like to join a channel on the IRC but I'm having trouble finding one that I like. For the past few days I have been jumping around from channel to channel trying to find one that was active and interesting. There doesn't seem to be a lot of those. Most that I found were "non-sense" channels.

Jaime Ross:
Paul your right it is really easy for people to ignore you on an irc channel. I always interupt converations and then end up leaving what could have been an interesting channel just because the people won't answer me.

Jaime Ross:
Kelly- I did the same thing. I met someone on a channel and we decided to meet yesterday. It was a strange experience because I knew so much about this person andf I did not have a face to put it with.

Paul Fau:
I think that I would probably want to join a newsgroup? Is that accesible through Usenet?

Irfan M. Murtuza:
I'm a little behind myself. Well I tried to find a group on the UseNet in an academic field, but newsgroup I looked into was way too technical for me to make any kind of contribution. I looked into an REM newsgroup and found out when tickets are going on sale but that's about it. So I think I'm going to join a newsgroup about the InterNet unless anyone has any suggestions

Wayne Butler:
Paul Faux asks for advice about some interesting IRC channels. Didn't one of you among us send something like that to us all on infohighway@umich.edu? If so, please speak up and help out Paul.

Stephen Chim:
Wayne, I have a question. Do we have to be a participant in the virtual community that we choose? To be more precise, do I have to post any "news" in the newsgroup that I chose and interact with other members of that community? Or should I make my observation as an outsider, who can be more detached?

Eric Rosenfeld:
Most irc channels have nothing to do with their subject. Look for the channels with a good amount of people on them and you should be able to find something interesting.

V:
Jesse: you can /join anything a have created a channel...you just have to get people on it.

V:
Jesse: you can /join anything a have created a channel...you just have to get people on it.

Amanda Read:
Jesse and Paul- You better watch out as my entire family, including myself, are canadians. :-)

Paul Fau:
Like most people I have not had any time to really devote myself to the syustem and learn all there is to know about these conferences and what their about to even start writing a paper. I did however use the irc yesterday for the first time and learned that people really don't have to talk to you if they don't want to. I joined the Canadian channel and I think that the people kept calling me a "bruin" probably because I kept interupting their conversation.

Todd Dubinsky:
Alt.drugs.pot would probably prove to be a good community to join. The members there are always talking about legalization of drugs, marijuana for medial uses, and other technical aspects of the drug community. I think it would be interesting to compare an virtual drug-using community with a real drug-using community.

Jaime Ross:
Kelly- I did the same thing. I met someone on a channel and we decided to meet yesterday. It was a strange experience because I knew so much about this person andf I did not have a face to put it with.

Wayne Butler:
Kelly,
It sounds like you're on the right track!

Jesse Ackles:
Paul: don't feel bad i've made hours worth of fun making fun of canadians on the channel just for kicks.

Jesse Ackles:
Kelly: I would rather not talk to any of you. Just kidding. I have been learning how to use ops lately though, so I think i'm about ready to actually be able to start up my own. As soon as I have a name for it i'll send it to the mailgroup and give a time.

Mike Edwards:
Hey Singin Paul I'm going irc'in tonight if you want we can go to the lab togather

Stephen Chim:
Amanda, Paul, Kevin and anybody in class: if you need any help accessing USENET newsgroup, we can have a small discussion after class, where I (and Irfan hopefully) can share some of our experience with you in finding an appropiate newsgroup. Since there are so many topics available on USENET, it is easy to get lost. However, it also means that you can probably find a newsgroup that suit your interest. It's just a matter of time.

Wayne Butler:
Stephen,
Either way is good, I suppose. Being a partcipant, I think, would be more interesting than being just an observer, but either way is fine. but, can you get to know a group without being part of it? Could you know a family without being a member of it?

Nicole Cooklin:
I have a question: How is everyone (that has yet to find a group to analyze) going to do their paper for Wednesday???

Todd Dubinsky:
Alt.drugs.pot is a newsgroup on usenet. You can access it using Nuntius or by typing trn at the unix prompt. I recommend, though, that you use nuntius. Once you get into Nuntius you type news.itd.umich.edu, wait about two minutes, and then it is pretty simple from there.

Paul Fau:
Todd, is Alt.drugs.pot an irc channel? ro is that something else like some sort of a newsgroup?

Stephen Chim:
Paul, you can join a USENET newsgroup which e through a newsreader programme. Nuntius is one of the newsreader that you can use. If you need any assistance, please feel free to ask Irfan or me.

Kelly Kloustin:
For those of you who have browsing the irc in search of scholarly topics,especially at night, youshould know that the irc at night is basically a "party line" with people just meeting and usually flirting.

Nicole Cooklin:
I am glad that I am not the only one that is having problems getting started off!!!

Wayne Butler:
Jaime and Kelly,
Your experiences might make for fascinating papers. What are the differences between your on-line personas and relationships and the face to face ones? What were your initial reactions to meeting the people face to face? Lots of potential here, I'm sure.

Amanda Read:
Stephen,
I have read what you wrote to Paul and would love help with the usenet as well. If this is not too much trouble for you I would really appreciate it.

Paul Fau:
Thanks Kelly I really appreiciate it. It really gets annoying when people are calling you a bruin all the time.

Wayne Butler:
Here's a question: how are the IRC people "collecting" their data? Are you capturing transcripts of the sessions in the buffer of your communications program? Are you taking detailed notes? I ask because, frankly, I wouldn't know how to do it myself. Capturing the data is CRUCIAL for this project.

Corey Geer:
Since I have been sick for the past few days, I would like to thank everyone who has participated in this conversation. I am anxious to get started and I feel like being part of this conversation has put me on the right track. Thanks again.

Jesse Ackles:
Dr. Butler: good point. actually i have noticed some really interesting trends in behavior from the irc participants, as well as social norms, etc. Does this sound paper-worthy? Maybe do some "experimentation" to test people's reactions (I've already done quite a bit, in fact).

Paul Fau:
Steve: that would be great, since I need the tools to help me get information that I need to write my paper.

Jesse Ackles:
Dr. Butler: I have already made numerous "permanent" contacts/friends on the irc. If I invite them all on, and ask them to bing friends, I think I should be able to start out with a good amount of people and work from there. I will take your advice, however. IN fact, I have been spending a lot of my irc time on one particular channel, so that would be easy

Jaime Ross:
Wayne Butler: I thought that our expereinces in meeting face to face would be interesting to write about but I don't know if I have enough information on the channel we met on to write the paper. It was a just a chat line...#usa.

Wayne Butler:
**********************
PLEASE JUMP OVER TO THE GOOD WRITING CONFERENCE AT YOUR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE. WE'LL MEET YOU THERE. **********************

Kelly Kloustin:
paul;just let them know that you're new at this and trying to learn about it for a class.They usually get much more sympathetic and helpful. For some odd reason,i have also found that is you have a female-sounding-nickname, people are also much more willling to help you out. so try being a transvestite for a while and see if it helps...

Kelly Kloustin:
for you

Jesse Ackles:
Actually Kelley has a point-it probably would be difficult to find or start an irc channel devoted to anything but ridiculous wordplay Jaime: I know it's just funny. they've all taken it well, though. they can also dish it out just as well.

Kelly Kloustin:
For data, I have been collectin the names of the users and noting the frequencies of my interactions with them, I note special incidents that occur, and any unusual habits or vocabulary that they use in a notebook I take with me to the lab and then I mark down anything that happens with a particular character next to the name that I had already written down, does this make any sense?

Jaime Ross:
Nothing wrong with being Canadian :-)

Justin Coopersmith:
I have joined the newsgroup alt.drugs.pot. I just happen to browse one day and I found this group. I think researching this community would be an interesting topic for project II.

Kelly Kloustin:
Jesse:let us know when and where so we can log on if we would like,that is if you want to talk to us...... : )

Kelly Kloustin:
Paul; I sent out a plea for help but mostly people have not found really active ones. I have the uenet address for a list of channels and their topics i can email it to you,because i don't have it now.

Mike Edwards:
Sing'in paul calc 115? Me to and I'm not looking forward to it

Todd Dubinsky:
In a newsgroup using Nuntius, all you have to do is highlight a message and go to Save and it will save that message on the disk. This way, you can save all the messages that you find important and useful in writting your essay. It is very easy then, to cut from the text on your disk and paste it into your essay to provide examples of conversation.

Wayne Butler:
Is wordplay so ridiculous? Maybe some of you might want to analyze the differences between the types of messages and language used on IRC and used on e-mail or usenet.

Paul Fau:
Big Mike: I'll have to see I might have to study tonight for this exam that I have on thurday in Calculus but nevertheless I'll try. Just tell me what channel and what time and I 'll try to make it.

Paul Fau:
Amanda, what is a bruin? Is that soething that I should take real offense to?

Wayne Butler:
Jesse,
Yes, studying the trend of irc behavior is an excellent route to take. And, you need not call me Dr. Butler, though I do like the sound of it! :-) Let's try to keep things informal and friendly.

Jesse Ackles:
Amanda: sorry to hear it. heh heh.

Dana Reichman:
Justin:
I think what everyone is saying about the IRC being difficult with use for this project is right. Could you help me figure out the newsgroup thing- I'm afraid I am a little behind. You really found an interesting one to look at.

Stephen Chim:
Yeah, Todd. I agree with your comment on USENET newsgroup for Project II. It is a lot more easier to quote things. A newsgroup is less ephemeral, though it lacks the kind of instant interaction that IRC possesses.

Stephen Chim:
Kevin, since IFS has been quite erratic recently, you'd better use a floppy diskette for safety. Anyway, I think we should talk after class to see whether there is anything that I can help.

Wayne Butler:
Jesse,
Actually, starting your own channel might be a neat idea. My only warning is this: What happens if no one joins your channel? You then wouldn't have any data to analyze for you paper. I suggest that if you want to start your own channel that you also follow another one or two just so you have something to write about.

Wayne Butler:
As far as the first drafts go, remember, these are drafts, not final products, yet. Do have, though, as much as you can like what virtual community you joined, why your joined it, what difficulties you've run into, what are your initial impressions. Sounds like many of you already have plenty of experiences and observations. These first drafts could also rely a bit on VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES to offer definitions, overviews of previous reserach on the dynamics of virtual communities, and so on and so forth. So, do have a draft done by midnight on Wednesday. And, bring to class with you on Thursday any data you have collected, any thoughts that didn't get into the draft, and specific questions about your draft you would like to talk about with a peer editor.

Wayne Butler:
Todd offers good advice to you all about IRC analysis.

Todd Dubinsky:
Yes Jaime, there were a lot of problems this weekend with unix. They said that it would only be a temporary one, but UNIX was completely disfunctional. I had to use Mailstrom to get me E-Mail messages, but now everything to my knowledge is fine.

Jesse Ackles:
I will ask around on the irc tonight and see if i can't find someone who might be able to help find a way to keep messages on the irc.

Eric Rosenfeld:
Most irc channels have nothing to do with their subject. Look for the channels with a good amount of people on them and you should be able to find something interesting.

To return to the Part Two page, click here.

Contact wbutler@umich
with comments or questions.

Modified: 3/4/95