CMC vs. F2F (2/16 )

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Wayne Butler:
Some of you have stated that you want to explore the advantages 
and disadvantages of CMC over f2f contact.  Some are for CMC and 
others are against it.  If you are interested in this topic, state your 
position on the issue, offer a couple of reasons why you believe the 
way you do, and then offer some evidence to support your position.  
Then, look for someone who disagrees with you and look for the 
fallacies in their argrument.

Nicole Cooklin:

Kevin Tiernan:
Whats up?

Nicole Cooklin:
So, what do you think?  CMC or F2F???

Kevin Tiernan:
CMC offers some real advantages.

Nicole Cooklin:
Like what? 

Kevin Tiernan:
CMC allows you to talk with people from far away,

Kevin Tiernan:
it allows you to get opions of people inside an issue or outside 
something you are involved in.

Nicole Cooklin:
I personally think that CMC is good in many cases, but I can't 
imagaine if we ran our lives only by CMC.  I think we would miss out 
on alot of life.

Stephen Chim:
Well, CMC vs F2F is a great topic. CMC is a plus to those people who 
are shy to communicate face to face. It also help the physically 
unattractive to speak up.  However, CMC also drains us a lot of time 
to deal with our friends in real life.

Stephen Chim:
Nicole, you are right. CMC should only be used to complement with 
our conventional way of communication but should not REPLACE it.

Kevin Tiernan:
It also allows you to work with some of the greatest minds from all 
over the world so that we aren't all duplicating technology.  Think of 
the whole VIRTUAL COMMUNITY book, all over the world this 
technology was created a the same time, but if we had the means to 
talk to each other easier back then only one of the groupos would 
have needed to create the technology then others could be creating 
other things.

Kevin Tiernan:
Stephen you make it sound like CMC is't real, and I think it can be. I 
think complemnting is right.

Nicole Cooklin:
Stephen, I agree with what you are saying.  CMC does help alot of 
people with expressing themselves better, but I just don't think that 
I would want to spend my life only using it.  Kevin, it is a great thing 
to have when you are doing researcch, or need valuable information 
or even just a friend, but what do you think about not going to work 
ever and only "telecommuting"?

Wayne Butler:
What would we miss out on?  

Kevin Tiernan:
I think that in some fields this will allow for one parent to stay home 
with the children which could be very benicial.

Wayne Butler:
Take a look at my original message at the top of the transcript for 
this conference, and try to do what I suggest if you can. I think it will 
help us all get something really substantial going.

Nicole Cooklin:
Social contact with our peers.  I can't imagaine only being around my 
family all of the time.  I think that you need to have contact with the 
people that you are working with.

Kevin Tiernan:
My question is, when the video technology come around do you still 
think that telecommunication will be this way?  Or do you people 
think that then it will be more like F2F?

Stephen Chim:
Kevin,  I am not implying that CMC isn't real. Through CMC, we are 
also communication with REAL human beings at the other side of the 
jack. What I am trying to say is that for those heavy computer users, 
as they spend more time networking, it is easy to become socially 

Kevin Tiernan:
If I am a drug dealer I don't really want to be around anyone!

Kevin Tiernan:
If you want to know how I will give them their drugs, I will mail it 
to them cash on delivery.

Nicole Cooklin:
Even with video technoligy...I don't think that it will be the same.  
You will have no social chats with people at lunch, etc...   If you are a 
drug dealer, don't you need to meet people to deal your drugs to?

Nicole Cooklin:
What if you don't make it as a big time drug dealer?  and you need 
to get a REAL job?  then what?

Nicole Cooklin:
Stephen, what do you think will be better for the work place?

Kevin Tiernan:
I will open a usenet group alt.drugs.need.them.

Kevin Tiernan:
If i need to get a real job I will have had schooling and will be 
prepared for my any new job I need to get.  I don't see how face 2 
face will get me a better job or prepare me better.

Wayne Butler:
Why do we have to have contact with those with whom we work?  Is 
there really something deep in the human soul that requires it, or is 
it just tradition because that's what we've always done?

Stephen Chim:
Nicole, it depends very much on the nature of the job. If it is a drug 
dealer, I would say that the video technology will help to save a lot 
of work but f2f interaction with customers will give the drug dealer 
a better position to advice on the use of durgs.

Nicole Cooklin:
If all you know how to do is talk by way of computer, then what will 
you do for your interview???

Wayne, i think that human contact is needed by people.  We need to 
have contact with people so we know how to act and behave when 
we do run into humans!

Kevin Tiernan:
Nicole I am wondering if since we don't really know each other F2F if 
you think less of me or my arguments?  Also do you think we need 
to meet in order for you to accept my views?

Nicole Cooklin:
If you are a drug dealer, what will happen when the government is 
keeping tabs on everything that takes place on the Net?

Kevin Tiernan:
I would go to the censorship discussion and BITCH!

Stephen Chim:
Nicole and Wayne, in addition to the fact that we need to contact 
people because we are social animals, for some jobs, f2f interaction is 
indispensable. Say counselling services for example.

Nicole Cooklin:
No, I don't think less of you because we don't know one another, I 
totally understand your points, but I am just trying to make an 

Stephen Chim:
I suggest that if you are interested in find out more info on CMC vs 
f2f you can go to John December's home page. There are lots of useful 
info on computer and human interaction.

Nicole Cooklin:
But, I suppose that we could have counselling on line, but it just 
wouldn't be very personal!

Kelly Kloustin:
Pn;don't bother going to the censorship discussion,no one's there.

Kevin Tiernan:
Stephen I think that in counseling F2F helps, but I don't know if it is 
needed.  People write to dear Abby and such all the time and the 
replies aren't face to face yet I think they help.  Also if I give you a 
good argument on why not to kill yourself i don't know if it makes 
that much of a difference if I am there or not.  Yes it does make 
some, but I don't know if it would help as many people as you think.

Nicole Cooklin:
You would probably have to be bitching on a computer from your 
cell anyway!

Stephen Chim:
Nicole, on-line counselling is  also possible, but by no means can it 
replace f2f counselling which is much more personal. Come and think 
of this. There are lots of non-verbal cues in our f2f communication. 
They are important part of human interaction. don't you agree?

Wayne Butler:
Ah hah, Stephen, but what did Reid say about telemedicine.  Koop 
seemed to think that when the bugs got worked out that health care 
would improve.  Couldn't the same be said of counselling?

Kevin Tiernan:
I would still be making CASH!!!!!!!

Stephen Chim:
Everybody, I want to know what's your position here in this issue.

Nicole Cooklin:
I am pro F2F. yet, I do belive that CMC is valuable.

Kathleen Soo Hoo:
I agree with Nicole

Paul Fau:
I think that too much cmc is detrimental.

Vanessa Liou:
I believe cmc offers us opportunities otherwise impossible, I don't 
see anything wrong with human minds interacting without the 
physical.  But  I don't think cmc should mean that we should limit 
ourselves only to that.  I think cmc should be intergrated but it 
shouldn't be the only form of human contact.

Kevin Tiernan:
I don't have one but I am arguing for CMC here

Nicole Cooklin:
Will you still be making cash if the prision doesn't provide computers 
in your cells?

Todd Dubinsky:
You cannot get the same from a shrink if it isn't F2F.!!!!  I 
mean....some people need to be hugged and need to cry on someone 
and not on a monitor.

Stephen Chim:
Wayne, telemedicine involves more of factual data. However, 
counselling involves more communication of the heart. They are 
quite different. But, well, you've made a point. On-line counselling 
may help people to express their heart more openly.

Kevin Tiernan:
Then I won't get cought because with the new technology I will be 
able to compute on the run, from my car or my plane and so they 
wont be able to track me or find me.  

Nicole Cooklin:
I guess you have it all worked out!  Good luck!

Mike Edwards:
F2f is cruical in counseling because if you start to cry at the screen 
then the counseler wouldn't know it until you told him/her.  But if it 
were the video counseling over the screen then that would be much 

Kevin Tiernan:
But mike this is still over the computer so it is still CMC.

Nicole Cooklin:
but still, will video be as good as F2F?

Paul Fau:
Hey Mike what happened to you on censorship?

Kevin Tiernan:
Hey paul wrong discussion.  ONLY KIDDING

Nicole Cooklin:
Almost time to go!!!!!  :-)

Stephen Chim:
Kevin, I don't have one neither. CMC definitely has its pluses and 
minuses. I think CMC vs f2f is worth of discussion. But it is difficult 
to hold a radical position to argue.

Mike Edwards:

Im here and lost in time sorry would you like to continue here or 

Todd Dubinsky:
Have a good vacation!!!!!

Paul Fau:
Well mik its time to go.

Stephen Chim:
Todd, I like your point on on-line counselling.

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Contact wbutler@umich
with comments or questions.

Modified: 3/4/95