InterChange Transcript on
Virtual Communities(Pt. II)

To return to the Part Two page, click here.

Kevin Tiernan:
On the WWW we can see pictures of the person or thing we are 
reading about yet they are still far away.  Do people think that you 
need just to see them or meet them once in order to trust them? Or 
do they think you always need to them and how they are acting in 
order to understand them?


Stephen Chim:
Amanda and Todd,
I agree with Amanda's notion that censorship of "worthless material" 
will lead to the fall of the self-governing aspect of the Net. Well, as I 
asked, who is going to judge what is worthless for other people on 
the Net? Where's the standard? It is better that there is none so that 
we can enjoy more freedom of expression at the expense of being 
lost in the junk information.

Paul Faux:
To Big Mike: 
So what is you r take on this whole internet thing?  I think that 
when this project grows immensly,  thew world will just be a bunch 
of robot acting button punching individuals.

Nicole Cooklin:
Jaime, I know what you mean!


Michael Edwards:
Hey Jaime and Amanda 
My name is mike as you can see and I have an orange Clemson hat 
on.  The f2f meetings will come you just have to look for it.  I we 
were having this discussion in class I would probable be more quiet.

Becky Rickly:
Well, Wayne, I know that premature babies tend to live longer/get 
stronger faster w/ lots of human contact.  I also know that old people 
petting dogs, cats, or being around others who are paying attention to 
them makes them happier and healthier.  I wonder if some of that 
might carry over to us.  Of course, I'm looking at extremes there, but 
I know of no studies that conclude that lots of net interaction makes 
someone healthier/happier/whatever--though I'm still intrigued by 
Kelly's comment on the net making you think critically.  I DO think 
that the absence of physicality makes people HAVE to consider a 
wider audience, context, timing, etc.--a rhetorical situation.  You can't 
just say "it's over there"....you have to be much more specific in print, 
understanding what is generally known and what information you 
need to fill in.

Wayne Butler:
Kathleen,
You say, "I think a person can get more out of a physical interaction."  
What "more" do they get and how do they get it?

Nicole Cooklin:
I agree with Mike, if we had this discussion in class, I, too, would be 
much more reserved and quiet.

Zoro:
The idea of having this local network seminar is cool, we should 
engage in this type of activity more frequently

Irfan Murtuza:
What comes after the XEROX video link?  What is the limit of the 
InterNet's communication ability?  With each advancement it leads 
to less and less human contact.  I'm all for technoology, but I'm not 
sure I want a world where people are logged onto the computer 
more of the day then dealing with other people in the flesh.  There 
would be something left out.

Becky Rickly:
You've noted that e-communication helps reduce (or does away with) 
issues of race, gender, ethnicity, etc.--what about power?  Do you feel 
more comfortable asserting your views online in front of someone 
with POWER than you would otherwise?  DO you feel more 
comfortable engaging in a discussion w/ someone powerful online?  
WHY?

Todd:
Don't get met wrong, virtual contact has many benefits, but there is a 
point when people spend more time in virtual reality than reality.  
These people take the internet as a drug.   That's where you have to 
draw the line. 

Kelly Kloustin:
jaime,and nicole: i agree with both of you. I have asked and 
responded to others readings and questions many times and even 
though this is a small class i still wouldn't feel very comfortable 
approaching one of these people that I have written to often  as a 
friend because relationships in cyberspace and relationships in the 
real world are quite different. I wish I could know the people in here 
better. What does everyone else think?

Michael Edwards:
I CANN'T KEEP UP WITH Q'S AND ANSWER.  this is something i don't 
like

Jaime Ross:
Mike-
I would probebly be much more quiet also.  I definetly think that is 
another great advantage to communicating on line.  I never 
particapate in class disscusions.

Wayne Butler:
Take a look at the interaction between Nicole and Jaime.  They are 
admitting, I think, that they actually know more about the people in 
this class through CMC than they would (and do) if this were a more 
traditional setting.  Here's a paradox, then, we seem to know one 
another better in this new way but know one another less than we 
would in the traditional setting.  What does it mean, then, to "know" 
somebody?

:
how do change your pseudonym?  Apparently, i forgot something.


Becky Rickly:
Irfan--you KNOW I'm just kidding when I add something like this   ;-
)   or this   But you're right; irony is especially hard to convey 
online

Todd:
It would be cool if we could enter rooms with specific topics, rather 
than stay on this one big channel.

Nicole Cooklin:
Yes, I would feel much more ease talking with someone with power 
on-line rather than f2f.  I think on-line conversations are 
uninhibiting, and there is more ease to speak freely and what is 
really on your mind.

Kevin Tiernan:
Michael, in order to keep up there needs to be less people.  So you 
either concentrate on one group or another or you can form your 
own confrence and have a small confrence with certain people.

Kelly Kloustin:
Dr.Butler, in reponse to your question about what's critical about f2f 
interaction. I think that because of the fact that we pick up so many 
cues through body language and facial expression maybe people feel 
that they are missing out on a major part of communication 

Paul Faux:
to Wayne Butler
I think that the cmc mode is very scary because if I  meet someone 
on the internet I don't have a clue about what this persn is about and 
I donn't necessarily think that cmc is any more honest than f2f.  If 
somone is going to lie about themself to deny the truth (to their own 
self) then that is not going to stop them from lying on the net

Wayne Butler:
Touche, Zoro.  Yes, we will move more and more into this on-line 
discussion mode.  We'll be using it to discuss our readings, to share 
ideas about papers, to offer feedback to one another on drafts, and so 
on and so forth.

Stephen Chim:
Oh Becky, your point on face to face (f2f) interaction really interests 
me. I want to tell you why I like to communicate in this medium. You 
see, why one types to express himself/herself, he/ she will be more 
organized and less impetutous as compared to normal conversation. 
Also, this mode of communication allows us to rethink what we have 
written and thus offer us a chance to revise before sending out our 
messages to others. This is what I feel to communicate with CMC. 

Zoro:
I think to know someone you have to have physical contact with 
them because then you don't really know whose behind the 
computer like Rheingold said.  Some males on the Internet pretend to 
be women so that they can act out their sexual desires.

Dana Reichman:
wayne:
I think that it is part of the human condition to restrain from saying 
everything in f2f life. but that is no reason to resort to CMC as the 
sole basis of communication.  As humans we need a balance though. 
CMC is just another resource, not a way of life.

Michael Edwards:
singin Paul
I just now realive how much of a robot I must look like.  I will 
always prefer the outdoors

Kathleen Soo Hoo:
In response to Jaime: I understand what you are feeling. I read 
people's responses everyday and I can match responses with names. 
However, when I come to class I can not match the writings with the 
faces. In a way I feel as if I should know everyone, but I don't. 

Todd:
I agree with Zoro one-hundred percent

Zoro:
Thanks Todd!!!


Kevin Tiernan:
Zoro, Do you beleive that that is why they do it?  That they want to 
act out their fantasies with guys.  Some maybe but most just do it as 
a joke to see how people will react when they find out the truth.

Irfan Murtuza:
I think it takes longer on the InterNet to trust someone, but that's 
just me.

Dixi:
I think our class needs to have our own type of "picnic", and get to 
know one another better.

Jaime Ross:
Wayne- I do feel like I know people better through this 
communication than a traditional class setting, but I don't think that 
I would be comfortable approaching many people.  So I guess really 
knowing them would be to be able to talk to them in person and 
through cyberspace.

Irfan Murtuza:
I'll bring the Faygo.

:
i think by participating in this type of communication medium, 
people must take precautions as well.  You really can not know for 
sure who lies on the other side of the screen.

Zoro:
Not all people do it to act out their fantasies, but some do 

Paul Faux:
To dixi 
That sounds good 

Jaime Ross:
Good call Dixi- a picnic is needed.

Dana Reichman:
i definately agree with those of you who point out that it is easier to 
lie on the internet too.  Anonymity encourages both truth and lies.

Wayne Butler:
Justin claims in his response to Kathleen that video links to CMC will 
allow more physical contact.  Hmm, how is the sharing of video 
images any more physical than CMC?

Dana Reichman:
Picnic sounds great to me- too bad we're in Ann Arbor

Dixi:
Let's pick a time, I'll bring the Peanut Butter and Jellys!!!!

Kevin Tiernan:
What it is great outside.

Zoro:
What do you mean we can all enjoy a nice Sunday afternoon at the 
ARB

Jaime Ross:
Dana- why is Ann Arbor bad for a picnic?


Irfan Murtuza:
This conference sound suspicicously like the WELL to me.


Dana Reichman:
hello??? I'm I the only one here that can percieve snow?


Kevin Tiernan:
YES!!!!!!!!

Todd:
Take this scenario for example:  Two people can be chatting on the 
internet for hours about their hobbies, interests, etc.  They will know 
so much about each other and maybe even share some secrets, but 
when one person asks what the other person's name is, the person 
freaks.  Usually, people won't reveal their name on the net.  Would 
you normally, in reality, know everything about someone, and not 
even know something as simple as their real first name?

Dana Reichman:
Kevin you confuse me


:
it's virtual snow

Becky Rickly:
Wayne has a point:  how is video more PHYSICAL than cmc???

Jaime Ross:
Sorry didn't think about the snow.  Maybe we can go sledding.

Stephen Chim:
Face-to-Face (F2F) pros & cons:
Yeah, Michael. You are right. This medium is help the shy to speak up 
and be more confident to express themselves because they have the 
time to organize and refine what they want to say. It is something 
that cannot be offered by our normal conversation.

Dixi:
Can I change my pseudonym back???  How???

Kevin Tiernan:
Dana, How do I confuse you?

Dana Reichman:
Jaime- sounds like fun

Zoro:
ve you checked out Blue Skies recently


Kevin Tiernan:
In order to change back you need to log off and log back in again.
Dixi

Michael Edwards:
Kevin the great outside is any where that is not inside.  Ive learned 
to not watch TV and keep myself active in other things of play and 
relaxation in mother nature.  I'm from Minnesota I can't help it and I 
don't want to change it!  :-)

Dana Reichman:
Kevin
you just said that you dont notice any snow around here!!


Dixi:
What is Blue Skys?


Wayne Butler:
Irfan,
Exactly "what" would be left out?  Again, I'm asking not because I 
disagree with you, but we all seem to be working under some 
unexamined assumptions about what it means to be human and how 
best to be human.  So, I ask, as a way of analyzing and examing our 
assumptions about humanhood, "what" would be left out if we never 
met face to face?

Kelly Kloustin:
this is a seminar class and we are supposedly interacting with each 
other on an almost daily basis, yet why is it that i feel like i'm in a 
room with complete strangers.I'm sorry if this is going off the topic 
but it really isn't because we are saying that we are missing the f2f 
contact. 

Todd:
Today was the first day I saw sun in two months.  I felt like a new 
man.

Zoro:
Blue Skies is a gopher based program through U-Michigan to give the 
latest up to date weather forecasts

Kevin Tiernan:
Dana
I don't notice any snow.  We are inside!

Jaime Ross:
Bless you who ever sneezed.

Jaime Ross:
Bless you who ever sneezed.


Michael Edwards:
the  snow is great It doesn't rain in MN and it does here that is crazy.  
You Michigan people have it warm too.

Becky Rickly:
Kelly--do you feel more of a connection w/ people in your other 
classes?

Dana Reichman:
todd- I can relate. 

Kevin Tiernan:
Hey Michael lets get back on topic please.

Jaime Ross:
It does not rain in MN?

Zoro:
In some classes I do feel a strong connection take for example the 
Calculus groups, and those pesky Foreign Language classes

Michael Edwards:
I totally agree Steve

Stupid:
Hey everyone quit typing and listen to everyone else type.

Paul Faux:
Video images are good but,  how much further should we mimick 
direct human contact until it dwindles to nothing?  Ithink that (this 
is another topic) The point the Rheingold pointed out that is 
definitely an advantage on the internet is the relative ease that one 
can exprees their ideas if they have a harder time doing so by 
speaking.  This is expecialy true for me because if I can't my point 
across at an exact moment, in time my contribution or anyone else is 
not less important.

Wayne Butler:
Dear :
You can only change your identity once.  You are now the Prince of 
our group--you've exchanged your name for a symbol!  Ah Ha!  The 
revenge of alternative, virtual identities.

Becky Rickly:
So you guys feel a stronger connection w/ people in your other f2f 
classes?  Fascinating!

Michael Edwards:
I'm getting some screwy messages, there all cut off and distorted.

Todd:
Unfortunately, in Michigan the weather is horrible, but for the ten 
people that live in MN, well I'm glad that they have nice weather. 

Dana Reichman:
Michael,  
I am sure that MN is a wonderful place. I for one am not attacking 
you for your love of home....
..even if it is minnesota.

Zoro:
Maybe you have a screwy computer


Michael Edwards:
B 5
yes BINGO

Amanda Read:
I guess that in general I feel pretty badly for the people who cannot 
express themselves freely in a normal class setting. It doesn't seem 
like you are being fair to yourself to just sit back and not say 
anything if you have an opinion on something.

Kathleen Soo Hoo:
Wayne:
When I said that I think a person can get more out of physical 
interaction, I meant that the person is faced with reality. Sexism and 
racism are among the many problems we face in our society. When 
we start communicating through the computers, it will eliminate 
many of these problems. However, we would not be solving them. I 
feel it is important to have people deal with these problems f2f. I 
have found that it is easier to deal with a problem when you are 
faced with it head on.

Wayne Butler:
Todd,
If you want to start a sub discussion, you can go to the InterChange 
menu item, choose Create a Conference, and give it a name.  The 
tricky part is "advertising" the new "channel" and getting folks to join 
you for a conversation.  I invite you, however, to give it a try.

Michael Edwards:
Paul
How goes it.  Is the net treating you well.

Kelly Kloustin:
i do not like this system i feel like i have to scroll so far upwards in 
order catch up

Todd:
some people go to the new conference "comeinhere".   Go to Join a 
Conference under the InterChange menu.

Irfan Murtuza:
If anyone heard, that was my stomach that just grumbled.

Michael Edwards:
It doen't rain In JANUARY!!!

Nicole Cooklin:
Kelly, I know what you mean, it takes me forever to catch up with 
what everyone has said!!!

Kevin Tiernan:
If I talked to a Black women for a while without knowing they were 
black or female.  I wouldn't then stop talking to them because I 
would feel that I knew them.  So though at first I am avoiding the 
problem when I finnnaly meet them I think I am solving it.

Michael Edwards:
Hey Stupid nice name

Michael Edwards:
just kidding


Becky Rickly:
Would you all be having a discussion like THIS in a traditional 
classroom?  What does this MEAN, then?

V:
Kathleen:
Perhaps the virtual community may guide a person who may not 
normally interact in person towards solving this problem?


Jaime Ross:
I have a question about the assignment... If we choose to do the IRC 
then we must only choose one channel right?   Will that channel be 
there everday and does that mean a channel is the one that you have 
to join #...
And how can I scroll once I have the narrowed list.  The computer 
has not let me do that!

Justin Coopersmith:
dnfjksdfjkdsbfjdskfbdsj  Junk Mail

Kevin Tiernan:
Bye guys class is over

Dana Reichman:
for some reason this is much more fun than a regular discussion.
I'm NOT saying let's never hear each other's voices again. Mayhaps it 
is just the change o' pace.

V:
time

Amanda Read:
Becky,
I think that you should say "would we be having a discussion like 
this". You are included too.

Nicole Cooklin:
There is no way that we would be having a discussion like this in the 
traditional classroom.  Not only would we not be talking this much, 
but we would all have to have bags on our heads!!

Dana Reichman:
bye bye guys

Paul Faux:
Later

Michael Edwards:
seeeeeee yaaaaa

Stephen Chim:
later...

To return to the Part Two page, click here.

Contact wbutler@umich
with comments or questions.

Modified: 3/4/95