Warmest Regards
Derek
>Rick: Well, in my view this entire brouhaha was worth it for
>distilling
>this position in such clarity.
>You should be aware that when the Dialogue editors were attacked and
>interrogated by NSA members in a hotel in the late '80s, they were told
>in no uncertain terms that the "Modest Proposal" was unacceptable
>because
it contained criticisms of NSA *policies*, and that criticizing NSA
policies
in turn equated to negative campaigning, which they alleged was
forbidden. These members of the NSA, at least, appear not to have
accepted the distinction you draw between public criticism of policy
and
public criticism of the institution.
I'm not sure, in turn, why any Baha'i would wish to criticize the
*institution* of the NSA? It is authorized in `Abdu'l-Baha's Will and
Testament and delineated in the Writings of the Guardian and recognized
by the Universal House of Justice. What would there be to criticize in
the *institution*?
Some NSA policies on the other hand desperately need to be publicly
discussed. First of all, there is a long-term problem of a relative
authoritarianism in the NSA leadership style, which the Universal House
of Justice criticized in its May 1994 letter, as NSA members acting
like
the board members of a major corporation. The entire "Dialogue" affair
was a consequence of this authoritarian leadership style. But more
troubling was the NSA handling of the travel arrangements for the World
Congress in 1991. The NSA adopted an official Travel Agency, which is
known to be expensive. This Travel Agency offered the NSA $50,000
worth
of free rooms in New York *if* the NSA could guarantee a certain number
of Baha'is would use this official Travel Agency. This was not a
kickback to individual members, but an institutional sweetener. The
NSA
therefore had an incentive to constitute its official Travel Agency as
a
Baha'i monopoly, in order to guarantee it would reach the threshold of
necessary reservations in order to receive the free-room bonus worth
$50,000.
The official Travel Agency, however, offered extremely expensive
packages
to the Baha'is. With such a large gathering, it should have been able
to
get the hotels to offer half price on rooms. Instead, it reserved the
rooms at full price, and in some instances at *more* than the normal
full
price. It is true that these were "full-service" packages.
Baha'is in the travel business thought this arrangement odd, and
ordinary
Baha'is beseeched them to offer cheaper alternatives. Baha'i travel
agents who arranged cheaper rooms for Baha'is, however, quickly ran
into
opposition from the NSA. The NSA would learn that a block of rooms had
been arranged at cheaper prices, undercutting the official Travel
Agency
monopoly, and it would contact the Baha'i travel agents and attempt to
intimidate them into cancelling the reservations. The NSA stance was
that by breaking the official monopoly, the Baha'i travel agents were
in
danger of costing it the $50,000 bonus in free rooms, thus hurting the
Fund.
The problem is that the constitution of such a monopoly is illegal. It
violates US anti-trust statutes to attempt to interfere in business
competition. In at least one situation of which I am aware, I believe
NSA
members may have stepped over the line, telling a travel agent that he
was "in peril" unless he withdrew his alternative, cheaper packages. I
have a copy of the tape of this conversation. The statute of limits on
such offenses has anyway expired. But I am extremely troubled by NSA
actions during this affair, and fear that such paternalism and
intimidation (legal or not) may be typical of its modus operandi
rather than a fluke. This is not to mention that thousands of Baha'is
were poorly served by the high room rates foisted on them by the NSA;
as
for the $50,000 sweetener, if each Baha'i at the congress had
contributed
$5 to the NSA, that would have covered the difference. They didn't
have
to pay $600 for $300 rooms.
So, is this sort of public criticism of NSA policy allowed?
cheers Juan Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan
On Wed, 10 Apr 1996, Rick Schaut wrote:
> Dear Juan and Friends,
> >From: Juan R Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu]
> >You and Richard Logan have said that you do
> >*not* believe, however, that an LSA or NSA decision can be publicly
> >protested by a defeated minority.
>
> I haven't followed Richard Logan's remarks closely enough to say, but
> your restatement of my own position is not accurate. I have said
that
> one cannot publicly criticise the institution itself, but one
certainly
> can criticise the institution's decisions or policies in public.
That's
> rather like the difference between a legitimate argument and an
> ad-hominem argument.
>
> If you think I have stated otherwise, I would ask that you quote the
> actual words.
From derekmc@ix.netcom.comFri Apr 12 15:35:53 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 12:28:57 -0700
From: DEREK COCKSHUT
To: Juan R Cole
Subject: Re: Re,criticism of NSA policy; last message
My dear Juan
I have not finished with it, the shame is that somebody of your
brillance has allowed anger to cloud their judgement.I was informed
several months ago about your intention to publish without review a
book on Baha'u'llah.I have not attcked you over that or caused
information to be passed around.
The only person I have reponded to recently was . . . who actually
attacked me when I was not involved in his thread.He has by the way
started on the Master this morning.I am aware from several private
messages that he has privately posted to individuals on Talisman rather
disturbing attacks on Abdu'l-Baha.I will be interested to see if you
are happy with attacks on the Master if he starts on the general forum.
You can not have an abstract discussion on subjects when you are
posting biased information that is one sided and inaccurate.That
frankly Juan is unworthy of you, not all members of Institutions are
bad and evil people indeed if any are.They are Baha'is trying just like
you and I trying to make sense of being a Baha'i, not to accept that
and read only the worst possible intention into everything is illogical
and wrong.
I truly like you and there is not many people that I have a regard for
without a long history of knowing a person, you are one of those.I am
sorry that you are mad at me. But I believe after reading all that had
gone on in Talisman while I was away on holiday for two days, if I had
been posting as the row unfolded I might have posted some very harsh
words at several people.
Warmest Regards
Derek
>
>
>Derek:
>
>You have, by identifying the principals in the transcript, transformed
>what I intended to be an abstract discussion of legal and
administrative
>issues into something very different, which I had not intended and of
which
>I want no part.
>
>I think your action absolutely shameful and irresponsible, as have
been
>your various character assassinations.
>
>I have nothing further to say on this issue. It was never my
intention
>to have individuals discussed by name on this forum. That was your
doing.
>I hope you do receive a clarification; however, you bear most of the
>responsibility for its necessity.
>
>
>uncheerfully, Juan
>
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 10:49:30 +0800 (HKT)
To: Juan R Cole
Subject: RE: criticism of NSA policies
Juan,
Did you notice that Derek accidentally posted his note to Bob Henderson
on Talisman concerning this thread? It would appear that the NSA, or
rather Henderson, has been providing Derek with the "official" version of
various events. . . In fact, I would guess that Pickering recorded the call
precisely because he had had a good deal of experience with Henderson
and knew that he had better . . .
From burlb@bmi.netFri Apr 12 16:04:56 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 12:41 PDT
From: Burl Barer
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: UHJ-women/The need for sensitivity
>
John Dale, in a fit of unabashed whimsey, wrote:]
"Abdu'l-Baha's statement is still not true and apparently never will be
true, pace the infallibility of Abdu'l-Baha, unless new information is
discovered."
Burl, having involuntarily spewed coffee all over his Verbatim Anti-Glare
screen, hereby awards Mr. Dale with the Dr. Burl's Almost Infallible Award
for Most Covenentially Implicated and a dream date with the travel agent of
his choice. I understand there is an excellent block of rooms available at
discount at the Motel 6 in Roswell, New Mexico and an equally attractive bed
and breakfast outside of Missoula, Montana.
No, I am NOT accusing Mr. Dale of being a you-know-what or suggesting that
he is aligned with you-know-who, or is trying to I-don't-know, I am simply
poking his tummy with a cyber forefinger for what has to be the most
peculair choice of words I've seen in a long time.
Burl.
*************************************
MAN OVERBOARD by Burl Barer is still only $19.95 and may be ordered from any
bookstore. ISBN#: 1-56901-815-4 Buy Yours Today!
********************
From jarmstro@sun1.iusb.eduFri Apr 12 16:05:35 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 14:46:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Jackson Armstrong-Ingram
To: Milissa
Cc: Ahang Rabbani
Subject: Re: women ... my last word ...
On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Milissa wrote:
> You might think this is a picky detail, but its an important one. Women
> are not "exempt" from service on the UHJ, they are "excluded". People just
> want to phrase it as "exempt" to make it sound better.
I also noticed this, found it odd, and reached the same conclusion.
> Btw, Ahang, and this is a serious question. I am not trying to bait you.
> But what, specifically, did Baha'u'llah do for women *as women* that was
> an improvement over previous dispensations? Let me give you some specifics:
And it is a darn good question.
...
> The discussion of women's membership on the UHJ has great ramifications for
> how we understand the whole concept of equality. Because, if equality
> doesn't mean that we have identical rights, then what does it mean? ANd
> if we hold that equality doesn't mean identity of functions or rights, then
> what is it about OUR concept of equality that is different or better than
> the Christian's or Muslims?
>
Indeed. \
\
> Please also note that this is not another question about why women are not
> on the UHJ, so please everybody don't send me an email telling me to shut up
> or asking me "which part of no don't you understand" If I wanted Baha'i men
> to tell me to shut up or ignore me I could just go to Feast!
Ok, so I can't resist anymore. The quotes from the House letter which
have been used and the repeated references to the House saying it can
never be, so it is a waste of time discussing it, ignore the fundamental
point that the House cannot bind its successors by its current
decisions. The House can't say what a future House may or may not do.
Therefore no decision by the House can ever 'close' an issue, although of
course it does determine current _practice_.
> This is a serious post so please treat it as such. These are serious questions
> I have been asking myself a lot lately, and I will appreciate any and all
> comments.
>
They are very serious and have indeed not been addressed in any
adequate way.
Jackson
From derekmc@ix.netcom.comFri Apr 12 18:13:33 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:49:28 -0700
From: DEREK COCKSHUT
To: Juan R Cole
Subject: Re: With friends like you . . .
You wrote:
>
>
>
>Derek:
>
>I should not like it said that I have hidden something about myself.
>
>You wrote:
>
>"I was informed several months ago about your intention to publish
>without review a book on Baha'u'llah.I have not attacked you over that
or
>caused information to be passed around."
>
>Since what you heard was hearsay, I don't think you can congratulate
>yourself too heartily for not gossiping about it.
>
>However, it is in fact the case that I do not allow anyone to censor
my
>academic writing, on any subject. Our faculty senate has repeatedly
>condemned the practice of Defense Department, CIA or other censorship
>requirements being attached to research grants, and it is my
impression
>that our faculty will not agree to do research that cannot be
published
>unhindered for the public. In fact, some scientists who do a lot of
work
>for DoD grew weary of being hassled about this and left the University
to
>form their own company.
>
>For me to subject my research to a religious test before publishing it
>would be a violation of my own conscience, a violation of my
professional
>ethics as an academic historian, and a violation of the Michigan State
>constitution, which I am sworn to uphold. In some instances where I
>publish with Baha'i publishers, the publishers submit the pieces for
>Review. I've never had any feedback from that process.
>
>
>I enclose a list of my publications that have not been vetted by the
>NSA. I am not sure what the NSA would know about it all. I do
>circulate manuscripts to other experts in the field, Baha'is
>and non-Baha'is, for comment. As I said, I would not want it said
that I
>had anything to hide.
>
>My dear Juan
I never said you had anything to hide however the persons who informed
me asked to keep the matter private.As you regard them as friends I
never imagined the information as hearsay and according did not break
their request for confidentiality.
Thank-you for the list I must get the ones I do not already have.
Warmest Regards
Derek
>
>Books
>
>Modernity and the Millennium: The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the
> Nineteenth-Century Middle East. Forthcoming.
>Persian Religion by Alessandro Bausani. [Editor of this English
> translation of Persia Religiosa, Milan, 1958, and Contributor,
> afterwords and a new Chapter Nine]. White Cloud Press,
> forthcoming.
>The Vision [ar-Ru'ya] of Kahlil Gibran [prose poems translated from
> the Arabic]. Santa Cruz: White Cloud Press, 1994.
>Spirit Brides [`Ara'is al-muruj] of Kahlil Gibran [translated from the
> Arabic]. Santa Cruz: White Cloud Press, 1993.
>Colonialism and Revolution in the Middle East: Social and Cultural
> Origins of Egypt's `Urabi Movement. Princeton: Princeton University
> Press, 1993.
>Comparing Muslim Societies. [Edited.] (Comparative Studies in
> Society and History series.) Ann Arbor: University of Michigan
> Press, 1992.
>Roots of North Indian Shi`ism in Iran and Iraq: Religion and State in
> Awadh, 1722-1859. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of
> California Press, 1988; New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1991.
>
>Articles and Chapters
>
>"Colonialism and Censorship," in Roger Long, ed. The Man on the
> Spot (London: Greenwood Publishing, 1995), pp. 45-62.
>"Power, Knowledge and Orientalism," [Feature Review Article],
> Diplomatic History 19, no. 3 (Summer 1995):507-513.
>"Gender, Tradition and History," in Fatma M|ge Gocek et al.,
> eds., Reconstructing Gender in the Middle East (New York:
>Columbia University Press, 1995), pp. 26-31.
>"The World as Text: Cosmologies of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i," Studia
> Islamica 80 (1994):1-23.
>"`I am All the Prophets': The Poetics of Pluralism in Baha'i Texts,"
> Poetics Today 14, no. 3 (Fall 1993):123-141.
>"Invisible Occidentalism: 18th-Century Indo-Persian Constructions of
> the West," Iranian Studies, 25, nos. 3-4 (1992 [1993]): 3-16.
>"Iranian Millenarianism and Democratic Thought in the Nineteenth
> Century." International Journal of Middle East Studies 24, no. 1
> (February 1992):1-26.
>"Ideology, Ethics and Philosophical Discourse in Eighteenth Century
> Iran." Iranian Studies 22, no. 1 (1989 [1990]):7-34.
>"The Baha'is of Iran." History Today 40 (March 1990):24-29.
>"Of Crowds and Empires: Afro-Asian Riots and European Expansion,
> 1857-1882." Comparative Studies in Society and History 31, 1
> (1989):106-133.
>"Rival Empires of Trade and Imami Shi`ism in Eastern Arabia 1300-
> 1800." International Journal of Middle East Studies 19, 2
> (1987):177-204.
>"Mafia, Mob and Shi`ism in Iraq: The Rebellion of Ottoman Karbala
> 1824-1843." [w/ Moojan Momen.] Past and Present 112 (August
> 1986):112-43.
>"`Indian Money' and the Shi`i Shrine Cities of Iraq 1786-1850,"
> Middle Eastern Studies 22, 4 (1986):461-80. Persian tr. as "Pul-i
> Hindi va `atabat," Chishmandaz (Paris) no. 5 & 6 (Autumn 1988 and
> Winter 1989).
>"Shi'i Clerics in Iraq and Iran 1722-1780: The Akhbari-Usuli
> Controversy Reconsidered." Iranian Studies 18, 1 (1985):3-34.
>"Rashid Rida on the Baha'i Faith: A Utilitarian Theory of the Spread
of
> Religions." Arab Studies Quarterly 5 (1983):276-91.
>"Imami Jurisprudence and the Role of the Ulama." Religion and
> Politics in Iran. N. Keddie, ed. New Haven: Yale University
Press,
> 1983, 33-46.
>"Feminism, Class and Islam in Turn-of-the-Century Egypt."
> International Journal of Middle East Studies 13 (1981):387-407.
>"Rifa`a al-Tahtawi and the Revival of Practical Philosophy." The
> Muslim World 70 (1980):29-46.
>
>Forthcoming:
>
>
>"Shi`ite Noblewomen and Religious Innovation in Awadh," in Violette
> Graf, ed., Lucknow through the Ages. Circulating.
>"Religious Dissidence and Urban Leadership: Baha'is in Qajar Shiraz
> and Tehran," in Michael Bonine, ed., City and Society in Qajar
Iran,
> in circulation.
>"Mirror of the World: Iranian "Orientalism" and Early 19th-Century
> India." Critique. Forthcoming.
>"Behold the Man: Baha'u'llah on the Life of Jesus." Journal of the
> American Academy of Religion. Forthcoming.
>"Sacred Space and Holy War in India," in Khalid Masud, Brinkley
> Messick and David Powers, eds., Fatwa: Muftis and Interpretation
> in Muslim Societies, (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press,
> forthcoming).
>"Of Crowds and Empires" [Revised version]. In Valentine Daniels,
> Fernando Coronil and Julie Skiurski, eds. States of Violence,
> Comparative Studies in Society and History Series (Ann Arbor:
> University of Michigan Press, forthcoming).
>"The Baha'i Faith and World Theology," in Thomas Ryba, George
> Bond and Leslie McTighe, eds., Edmund Perry Festshrift (Evanston,
> Ill.: Northwestern University Press, forthcoming).
>
>
From spurushotma@brahma.hcla.comFri Apr 12 18:15:01 1996
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 69 9:00:00 PDT
From: spurushotma@brahma.hcla.com
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Covenant breakers
" 26. Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who
[is] on the LORD'S side? [let him come] unto me. And all the
sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
27. And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of
Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, [and] go in and
out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man
his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his
neighbour.
28. And the children of Levi did according to the word of
Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three
thousand men.
29. For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves to day to the
LORD, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that
he may bestow upon you a blessing this day.
30. And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto
the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up
unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your
(Exodus, Chapter 32)"
See what happened to those that built idols and Golden Calfs
and made fools of themselves disobeying the Center of the Covenant
in past Dispensations?? How merciful that in this Dispensation
those who are unfirm are finally only ignored!
From TLCULHANE@aol.comFri Apr 12 18:16:19 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 17:19:01 -0400
From: TLCULHANE@aol.com
To: nineteen@onramp.net, a003@lehigh.edu, talisman@indiana.edu
Cc: TLCULHANE@aol.com
Subject: Re: (fwd) re:science /religio...
Dear Richard ,
Keep in mind I am an iredeemable Thomist :)
I do not think science is simply a method . That is Wm hatchers argument
and I dont accept it. My reason for saying such is that it is a strange
combination of positivism and a varierty of the only "real" truth or the
truth that matters is revelation . I dont accept that .
First positivism . All I can say is I have was convinced long ago by A.
N. Whitehead a pretty fair mathemetician and Michael Polanyi , a pretty fair
chemist , that something a whole lot more than "method" was going on here . I
dont have the time to lay out the full range of their and others arguments.
Perhaps it would help if I said that I define science as the systematic
application of *reason* to a given phenomenon. Reason or as I understand
Abdul Baha *intellect* is an emanation of the Universal Intellect , which is
the Source of *existence*. To paraphrse Abdul Baha the Universal Intellect
*Mind* is the motive power of God in the sense that mind is the motive power
of the soul . A such this capacity of Mind or intellect which I refer to as
reason and its sysyematic application -science- have ontological status . it
is an inherent aspect of being both our existence and Being as such .
I must also suggest that if you do not find "science " as sharing in a
moral life -inner or outer - you are closing yourself to some very profound
insights into for example what the oneness of humankind could mean. I also
think there are some powerful insights about *reality* that derive from
20thcentury physics. Science does disclose being. I would argue that the
same thing is true of art and that ethical implications inhere in
epistemology.
To deny science (as applied reason ) ontological validity is to reduce
it to a unititarian excercise . I believe it is precisely the mistake that
was made in the 15th and 16 th centuries. The result as Aquinas could have
recognized was to not only secularize reason but to do so in a way which led
to ongoing antagonism between proponents of reason and revelation.
An alternative often propsed by Bahais is that revelation is the only
standard by which truth may be determined . This is an old argument and leads
to an intellectual cul de sac in my view. W end up defending long standing
literalist arguments in Christianity while holding ourselves out as a
religion for a new age . The problem I see as I have stated before is the new
age sounds suspiciously medieval .
If science as applied reason has no ontological reality - there are
epistemological questions which then arise - how do we account for the
following statement of Baha u llah
" the scrolls which depict the shape and pattern of the universe are
indeed a most great book. Therein every man of insight can percieve that
which would lead to the Straight Path and enable him to attain the Great
Announcement."
or from Abdul Baha"
" There are two Books: one is the Book of Creation and the other is the
written Book. The written Book consists of the heavenly Books which are
revealed to the Prophets of God . .
The Book of creation is the preserved Tablet and the outspread Role of
existence .The Book of Creation is in accord with the written Book."
I would suggest that Bahau llahs comment carries ethical implicatiuons
in that study of the phenomenal world can lead one to the ethical recognition
of Bahau llahs revealed truth. In other words one can indepentally arrive at
the recognition of oneness(among other things) via the exercise of reason.
I would aslo suggest that the key to unlocking the heart of the
"written Book" is irfan and the key to unlocking the heart of the book of
Creation is irfan . If we listen to the statements of scientists about how
"discovery " comes about it is amazingly simliiar to the descriptions of
mystics about how spiritual illumination occurs. Once I have had the irfan
experience - the recognition of an underlying order to phenomenon how do I go
about observing that recognition . I would suggest that this is done via
applied reason or intellect ,that which we have come to call science. The
observence , Baha u llah suggests in the Aqdas , is inseperable from
recognition . Once having had the "irfan" experience one cannot help but
pursue it, that is observe it. And what compels one to that observance?
"observe My commandments for the love of My beauty" says Baha u llah .
Again if we were to ask scientists "why do you do what you do?" they will
tell us that they are compelled by the recognition of some truth , vision
,internally felt and experienced about some aspect of reality . In fact they
will speask of the "love" they feel for "beauty" of an ,mathematical equation
as it is expressive of the underlying order of reality .
What would be the effects of my asserting that the experience of a
scientist were somehow less real than my irfan experience . It ends in a kind
if na na nana na my toy is better than your toy. Why is is necessary to
claim that if it came from revelation it is better than if it came from
science? I personally dont care if the people of the world come to a
recognition of the oneness of humankind via revelation or reason. I just want
them to get there.
I also believe that the operation of these two "Books" are analagous to
the "masculine " and feminine " principle in *Existence *. Please note I am
not simply speaking of men and women as biological forms which are one
dimension in which *Being * has given us *existence*. In this sense reason is
the masculine principle and revelation is the feminine principle . As Bahau
llah notes in a different context in the Tablet of Wisdom, but applicable I
think . "these two are the same yet they are different." The soul may be
genderless but that does not man it is without what I am referring to as the
masculine and feminine. Both principles or capacities are present in each
soul.
If we could get past a simply Aristotelianism about excluded middles ,
it is either true or it is false , something incredibly profound about Baha u
llah begins to appear. Aristotle and others argued that there was really only
one true ,pure, or perfect form of the human species. That form was
masculine and its embodiment was the biological male. Women were - well . . -
deformed males. There is an ananagous position taken with respect to *truth *
. revelation is the only true , pure , perfect means to approach it . Reason
is -well..- a deformed type compared to revelation and of course it is men
who do the revealing. I have elswhere over the months stated my views on who
BAHA U lAH really is as the embodiment if the Divine Femine so I will forego
those here.
If we in this enlighened age are not about to subscribe to the first
argument regarding male and female why are we so convined that the same form
of argument is correct with respect to revelation . It particularly surprises
me when it seems so clearly contrary to what Baha u llah has stated . -see
quotes above.
I believe what Baha u llah is pointing us to is a world beyond these
dualisms , not the same as polarities, which give rise to differentiation .
In the same sense that the soul is without gender but not without the
masculine and feminine principle, so the mind , the motive power of the soul
is not without the capacity for recognition and observance based on reason
and revelation . I think it is the understanding that reason (science)
exists within the "outpouring of Being * the self disclosure of that Being .
*Revelation* properly understood is the continuous outpouring of this *Being
*. The written revelation is an attempt to communicate this feminine ground
of existence and reason is as inherent to existence as is its ground. In
other words existence our being in the world is always about agency
(maculine) - in - communion (feminine). It is the interaction of the two
which gives rise to the infinite differentiations of *being*.
Our task it seems to me is to learn the language- the letters , words- ,
the underlying vision of order in Bahau llahs written revelation and develop
it that we might contribute something significant to the modern world and
assist it to transform its centuries old dualisms . If not then we are simply
replaying old arguments men /women . freedom /authority . reason/ revelation
. All of these are dualistic fractures , in my view , of a world so far
dominated by the masculine principle - agency turned in on itself without
the recognition and observance of its "feminine " ground. It is a fracture
which exists within the souls of both men and women.
When we can learn Bahau llah's language then a new synthesis will emerge
that can carry us beyond sterile attempts to assume because they are
different one must be better than the other , revelation or reason , freedom
or authority . . men or women .
warm regards ,
Terry
From sfotos@logosintl.comFri Apr 12 18:17:14 1996
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 06:55:53 +0900 (JST)
From: Sandra Fotos
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Scholarship on equality of women (was: last words)
Dear Talismans,
Milissa wrote:
>The discussion of women's membership on the UHJ has great ramifications for
>how we understand the whole concept of equality. Because, if equality
>doesn't mean that we have identical rights, then what does it mean? ANd
>if we hold that equality doesn't mean identity of functions or rights, then
>what is it about OUR concept of equality that is different or better than
>the Christian's or Muslims?
>
>Please also note that this is not another question about why women are not
>on the UHJ, so please everybody don't send me an email telling me to shut up
>or asking me "which part of no don't you understand" If I wanted Baha'i men
>to tell me to shut up or ignore me I could just go to Feast!
>
>This is a serious post so please treat it as such. These are serious questions
>I have been asking myself a lot lately, and I will appreciate any and all
>comments.
****************************************
Thank you, Milissa, for squarely identifying a major hot button that must
be considered as we are preparing for entry by troops. I wasn't at all
satisfied by recent glib (male) rejoinders that these things don't bother
THEM and so don't need to be addressed in a proactive manner.
Juan Cole has an informative preliminary draft of a position paper on why
women aren't on the House. I wonder if he would consider sharing
all/portions of it with the list, and commenting on Milissa's points.
And, if I may speak firmly to those list members who have suggested that we
need not discuss exclusion of women from membership on the House and the
other areas which appear to place women in a compromised position:
Gentlemen, the problems will not go away. Women constitute half of the
human population and their valid questions about these points cannot be
silenced or ignored. We *must be able* to explain the portions in the Aqdas
which appear to suggest unequal treatment of women--we can't just tell
seekers to "never mind" or not be troubled by them.
Personally, I believe that these social laws were products of their time
and were revolutionary within the Islamic context. Explaining them to
seekers as such, I suggest that they be appreciated as great advances for
the time which, symbolized by Tahirih's removal of the veil, ripped off the
"veil" of women's inferior status and set in motion great processes of
equality which resonated throughout the globe.
As an aid to seekers' understanding of these Writings, we certainly need
carefully crafted position papers by our Mid East scholars explaining these
laws in such a way that seekers from other religions can appreciate their
wisdom and beauty, acknowledge their historical roots and the continuing
processes which they engendered, and, thus, will not find them a stumbling
block in their own acceptance of the splendid truth of this great
Revelation which will overshadow humanity for the next 500,000 years.
Mid Eastern scholars, where are you? What light can you shed? How can
these laws inform the present?
Best,
Sandy
Sandra S. Fotos, Ed.D.
Associate Professor of English
Senshu University
2-1-1 Higashi Mita
Tama-ku, Kawasaki-sji
Kanagawa-ken 214, Japan
***********************************
All that which ye potentially possess can,
however, be manifested only as a result of your
own volition.
Baha'u'llah
************************************
From rabbana@a1.bmoa.umc.dupont.comFri Apr 12 18:18:27 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 16:08:01 -0400
From: Ahang Rabbani
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Overturning decisions by future UHJ
[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]
> The quotes from the House letter which have been used and the
> repeated references to the House saying it can never be, so it
> is a waste of time discussing it, ignore the fundamental point
> that the House cannot bind its successors by its current
> decisions. The House can't say what a future House may or may
> not do. Therefore no decision by the House can ever 'close' an
> issue, although of course it does determine current _practice_.
Actually, yes and no.
In a number of instances the House of Justice has declared that
something is outside its sphere of pronouncements. For example,
it declared that it can find no way to legislate another Guardian
in existence. Or that appointment of the Hands was outside of
its sphere of competence. In those cases, no future House of
Justice an overrule the existing pronouncements unless they can
demonstrate that *new* Text has been located (which is extremely
unlikely).
The 1988 letter of the House on the question of women was one
such occurrence. The House did *not* rule on the matter; it
simply declared the matter outside of its sphere of competence.
Hence, I firmly believe no future House of Justice can overturn
the current situation unless *new* Text/information is located.
The Will and Testament permits pronouncements of a House to be
overturned by future Houses in case of laws "as they form no part
of the Divine Explicit Text." By the House of Justice arguing in
the 1988 letter to New Zealand NSA that exemption of women from
service on the House is embedded in the Text, in effect, they
have (very cleverly) closed this issue for all future
consideration.
The only way that some future House can overturn this decision
and make it possible for women to serve on the Supreme Body, is
for them to demonstrate conclusively that some significant piece
of information was not available to the 1988 House.
So, the question is what information was available to the House
in 1988 when they made their decision? I believe this must be
closely documented in order for some future House to be able to
argue that *additional* data has become available to alter this
pronouncement. This additional data must necessarily speak to
*why* the exemption is not embedded in Baha'u'llah's Writings?
All the arguments presented on Talisman in favor of women's
service, such as "rijal" business or 1902 Tablet, etc, (with all
due apologies) are worthless because they were all available to
the House in 1988. Therefore, no future House can act based on
these evidence. If anyone entertains serious hopes that some
future House will overturn this decision, they better come up
with some *new* arguments.
Well, John W, I'm still waiting to be disconnected from Talisman.
(My email system doesn't interface with Majordomo, so need your
help. Thanks for everything.)
regards, ahang.
ps. Milissa khanum, "exemption" is the right term in this case,
because membership on the House is a service. Women are not
excluded, but exempted from this burden. At any rate, its the
wording of the 1988 letter which you find a number of us echoing.
From Wilgar123@aol.comFri Apr 12 18:18:59 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 18:02:40 -0400
From: Wilgar123@aol.com
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: The Ever Forgiving
Dear Friends,
In many of his prayers and meditations Baha'u'llah uses "The Ever Forgiving"
as an appellation of God. Personally I find the notion rather comforting. To
me it confirms the idea of the eventual reconciliation between mankind and
God, and when I scan the pages of history it allows me to make some sense out
of the nightmarish aspects of the human record (especially many of those
things done in the name of God). It is psychologically redemptive in the
highest sense. Regarding this appellation:
1) Could some of our Islamicists give us some background on how the phrase
might have been understood by Baha'u'llah's immediate audience(s)? What
were some of the available interpretations in Shiah circles, especially as
it related to notions of justice?
2) I would appreciate people sharing their own insights or understandings
about this appellation.
Love and laughter, Bill G
P.S. I inadvertently left my signature off my last post - "Women"
From r_wagner@foma.wsc.mass.eduFri Apr 12 18:20:03 1996
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:09:58 -0400
From: r_wagner@foma.wsc.mass.edu
To: TALISMAN@indiana.edu
Subject: Trademarks and covenant breakers
I've located the full texts of the two relevant court cases.
The first is given below; I'll post the other when I finish
reformatting it.
Ralph Wagner
(CITE AS: 27 N.Y.S.2D 525)
McDANIEL et al
v.
MIRZA AHMAD SOHRAB et al
Supreme Court, Special Term, New York County
March 31, 1941.
Action by Allen B. McDaniel and others, as members of
the National Spiritual Assembly and Trustees of the Baha'is
of the United States and Canada, and another against Mirza
Ahmad Sohrab and another based on alleged fact that
defendants were creating erroneous impression that they were
connected with and authorized to represent the Baha'i
religion, and to solicit contributions therefor. On motion
to dismiss complaint. Motion granted, with leave to serve
a further amended complaint.
Watson, Bristol, Johnson & Leavenworth, of New York
City, for plaintiffs.
Mitchell & Bechert, of New York City, for defendants.
VALENTE, Justice.
This is a motion for judgment on the pleadings,
dismissing the amended complaint as supplemented by the
bills of particulars as insufficient in law. The individual
plaintiffs sue as members of the National Spiritual Assembly
and Trustees of the Baha'is of the United States and Canada.
The Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the City of New
York, a religious corporation, is a co-plaintiff.
The complaint alleges that the name 'Baha'i' denotes a
religion identified with the name of the founder 'Baha'.
The plaintiffs claim to be the authorized representatives of
all of the Baha'is of the United States and Canada. They
allege that they are publishing books and other publications
which teach the Baha'i religion. They charge that the
defendants, who were members prior to April 5, 1929, of the
Baha'i congregation of the City of New York, have been
conducting, without the authority of plaintiffs, meetings,
lecutres, classes, social gatherings and other activities,
and announcing and advertising the same as Baha'i meetings,
lectures, classes, etc. They complain that the defendants
have been giving these meetings, lectures, ect., a Baha'i
appearance and atmosphere by teaching, in connection
therewith, a religion described as the Baha'i religion, and
that they have created an erroneous impression that they are
connected with and authorized to represent the Baha'i
religion and to solicit contributions therefor. In
addition, plaintiffs complain of the opening of a book shop
by the defendants under the name of 'Bahai Book Shop' and of
the listing of the shop in the telephone directory under
that name, immediately over the name of 'Baha'i Center,'
which represents the listing of plaintiffs' New York office
and book shop. _ [1, 2]
In the court's opinion, the complaint fails to state a
good cause of action. The plaintiffs have no right to a
monopoly of the name of a religion. The defendants, who
purport to be mambers of the same religion, have an equal
right to use the name of the religion in connection with
their own meetings, lectures, classes and other activities.
No facts are alleged in the complaint to indicate that the
defendants have been guilty of any act intended or
calculated to deceive the public into believing that their
meetings, lectures or book shop are identified with or
affiliated with the meetings, lectures, etc., and book shop
of the plaintiffs. Defendants have the absolute right to
practice Baha'ism, to conduct meetings, collect funds and
sell literature in connection therewith, and to conduct a
book shop under the title 'Bahai Book Shop.'
The bills of particulars furnished by the plaintiffs
admit that the allegations, that the defendants created the
erroneous impression that they were connected with the
plaintiffs and led the public to believe that their book
shop was connected with the plaintiffs, were not based upon
any acts of the defendants other than their conducting
meetings, lectures, classes and other activities under the
name of 'Bahai' and their operation of a book shop under
that name listed in the telephone directory immediately
above the name of plaintiffs' book shop. The position of
the listing is, of course, due to the fact that the
telephone directory is arranged alphabetically, so that the
name 'Bahai Book Shop' naturally precedes the name 'Baha'i
Center'.
The motion to dismiss the amended complaint is granted,
with leave to serve a further amended complaint within ten
days from the service of a copy of this order with notice of
entry.
From rstockman@usbnc.orgFri Apr 12 18:20:33 1996
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 15:07:48
From: "Stockman, Robert"
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: 1997 Kahlil Gibran Conference
I'm sorry to forward something without being on Talisman, but I
thought this would interest many of you.
-- Rob Stockman
P.S.: Our Irfan colloquium last weekend went very well. I'll post
report to Talisman once I have one written. Must grade 90 final exams
first.
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
>To: Baha'i Announce
>From: "Suheil B. Bushrui"
>Organization: University of Maryland,College Park
>Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:27:59 EDT
>Subject: 1997 Kahlil Gibran Conference
>Precedence: bulk
>
>The University of Maryland Kahlil Gibran Research and Studies Project
> College Park/Washington, DC, USA
>
> * * *
>
> Advance Notice:
> THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON KAHLIL GIBRAN
>
>
>Conference Title: Kahlil Gibran and the Immigrant Tradition
>
>Location: University of Maryland, University College
> Inn and Conference Center, College Park, MD.
>
>Date: October 10th through 12th, 1997.
>
>Organizers: Kahlil Gibran Research and Studies Project
> (Professor Suheil Bushrui, Director); Center for
> International Development and Conflict Management,
> University of Maryland at College Park.
>
> This seminal conference on the famous poet-painter Kahlil
>Gibran, the first of its kind to be convened anywhere, will be held
>at the University of Maryland at College Park on October 10th through
>12th, 1997. The meeting is being organized under the auspices of the
>University of Maryland Kahlil Gibran Research and Studies Project.
>
> This advance notice is intended to solicit opinions and
>suggestions regarding the structure and activities of the gathering.
>Only the active participation of all segments of Gibran's following
>can ensure that this will be an event of international and lasting
>significance. Already a steering committee has been formed, and
>distinguished sponsors and supporters in the United States, Lebanon,
>Europe and the Middle East are beginning to lay the foundations for
>the conference.
>
> Presently, activities planned include lectures, panel
>discussions, poetry readings, and art and book exhibitions. Kindly
>address all correspondence to:
>
> Professor Suheil Bushrui, Director
> Kahlil Gibran Research and Studies Project
> Center for International Development and Conflict Management
> Tydings Hall 0145, University of Maryland
> College Park, MD 20742, U.S.A.
> Telephone: (301) 314-7714
> Fax: (301) 314-9256
> E-Mail: bushrui@bss1.umd.edu
>
> The organizers believe that such an international gathering is
>long overdue and that your contribution is essential. More than
>merely a tribute and commemoration, the conference is designed to
>help establish a Gibran cannon worthy of his exceptional
>accomplishments as both a writer and an artist. Gibran has touched
>the lives of millions, and his major work, The Prophet, is currently
>the most widely read book in the world. Through his writings in both
>English and Arabic, Gibran's message of unity and healing has
>resonated among peoples of diverse cultures, thus bringing them
>together in appreciation of his art. Today, it is imperative to
>explore the many aspects of Gibran's life, work, and times in order
>to gain a better understanding of the vision of the global society,
>now emerging, that inspired his literary and artistic achievements.
From derekmc@ix.netcom.comSat Apr 13 00:07:22 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 15:20:07 -0700
From: DEREK COCKSHUT
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Fwd: Overturning decisions by future UHJ
]My dear Ahang
What an excellent outlining of the situation.
Kindest Regards
Derek Cockshut
> The quotes from the House letter which have been used and the
> repeated references to the House saying it can never be, so it
> is a waste of time discussing it, ignore the fundamental point
> that the House cannot bind its successors by its current
> decisions. The House can't say what a future House may or may
> not do. Therefore no decision by the House can ever 'close' an
> issue, although of course it does determine current _practice_.
Actually, yes and no.
In a number of instances the House of Justice has declared that
something is outside its sphere of pronouncements. For example,
it declared that it can find no way to legislate another Guardian
in existence. Or that appointment of the Hands was outside of
its sphere of competence. In those cases, no future House of
Justice an overrule the existing pronouncements unless they can
demonstrate that *new* Text has been located (which is extremely
unlikely).
The 1988 letter of the House on the question of women was one
such occurrence. The House did *not* rule on the matter; it
simply declared the matter outside of its sphere of competence.
Hence, I firmly believe no future House of Justice can overturn
the current situation unless *new* Text/information is located.
The Will and Testament permits pronouncements of a House to be
overturned by future Houses in case of laws "as they form no part
of the Divine Explicit Text." By the House of Justice arguing in
the 1988 letter to New Zealand NSA that exemption of women from
service on the House is embedded in the Text, in effect, they
have (very cleverly) closed this issue for all future
consideration.
The only way that some future House can overturn this decision
and make it possible for women to serve on the Supreme Body, is
for them to demonstrate conclusively that some significant piece
of information was not available to the 1988 House.
So, the question is what information was available to the House
in 1988 when they made their decision? I believe this must be
closely documented in order for some future House to be able to
argue that *additional* data has become available to alter this
pronouncement. This additional data must necessarily speak to
*why* the exemption is not embedded in Baha'u'llah's Writings?
All the arguments presented on Talisman in favor of women's
service, such as "rijal" business or 1902 Tablet, etc, (with all
due apologies) are worthless because they were all available to
the House in 1988. Therefore, no future House can act based on
these evidence. If anyone entertains serious hopes that some
future House will overturn this decision, they better come up
with some *new* arguments.
Well, John W, I'm still waiting to be disconnected from Talisman.
(My email system doesn't interface with Majordomo, so need your
help. Thanks for everything.)
regards, ahang.
ps. Milissa khanum, "exemption" is the right term in this case,
because membership on the House is a service. Women are not
excluded, but exempted from this burden. At any rate, its the
wording of the 1988 letter which you find a number of us echoing.
From mfoster@qni.comSat Apr 13 00:07:42 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 17:25:19 -0500
From: "Mark A. Foster"
To: Talisman
Subject: Gender Equality
Talismanians -
Again, just another brief note due to lack of time.
It seems to me that the exaltation of the station of women has more to do
with the divine potentialities of this Dispensation, which will, I believe,
become increasingly manifest, than specific ordinances of the sort that
Milissa Boyer has eloquently pointed out. It seems to me that the unique
roles of women and men, which have been changed somewhat (but not entirely),
have not been changed that much by Baha'u'llah. Well, there have been some
modifications (such as the preference for educating girls), but there is
also considerable historical consistency - especially with the other
religious traditions in the Abrahamic line. However, I don't think that this
area is where the primary distinction lies.
IMHO, the main area of gender revolution can be found in the opening up of
the independent investigation of reality to both women and men and in the
seizing of the power of the ecclesiatics, as Baha'u'llah wrote. The result
will be, I belive, that all souls, of either sex, will be able to contribute
to the knowledge base of a gradually emerging global society and to do so
without the clerical and other religion-based interference which has kept
humanity as primarily male-oriented in the past.
Well, that was a bit longer than I expected it to be.
From sfotos@logosintl.comSat Apr 13 00:08:09 1996
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 07:28:58 +0900 (JST)
From: Sandra Fotos
To: John Dale <73043.1540@compuserve.com>
Cc: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Subjects We Are Not Discussing/Population Theology
John wrote:
> Can I suggest that we now begin addressing some of the many rather urgent
>topics that we have not been discussing, at least of late? I like the thread
>now going on about science and religion, but there are many things that
>need ourattention.
> Another important issue that the Faith needs to address is the whole
>range of issues that deal with family planning and population control. I'm
>sure that this has been dealt with in the past, so somebody please let me know
>what archived materials may exist on this topic.
> What has our Faith put forward on this issue? Who among us has done work
>on this? Does the Baha'i International Community have any papers dealing,
>for example, with Baha'i thinking on the population-related issues as
>presented tothe United Nations?
Dear John,
Yes, we should absolutely start looking at this things and gathering
Writings--the troops are poised!
Birth control:
People have been saying that the Writings indicate that birth control is
permissible after the second child but I don't have a source for this.
Anyone?
Education and population:
Generally, as education rises, the birthrate falls. This is a combination
of decreased infant mortality caused by better medical attention, diet,
etc. plus the entry by women into the work force. Last September, I
attended a Literacy NGO conference examining the progress made at the half
way point of the Literacy Decade. Demographics was continually on the
agenda--when women could read, had health and dietary knowledge and access
to primary care facilities, birth rates dropped, survival rates climbed and
remarkable grassroots efforts were made to establish schools. Educating
the women seemed to be the key to all types of economic and social
transformation.
Literacy Program Statistics: The Baha'is sponsor 72 adult litearcy programs
in 46 nations, with 11 programs oriented specifically towards women.
However, even among programs that are not gender specific, women comprise
about 75% of the learner population. These programs employ a functional
approach, teaching literacy skills which enable the learners to function
effectively in their group and community as agents of social change.
Documents: Documentation on various Baha'i social and economic
development programs exists and may be obtained from the World Center. An
extensive report on Baha'i Literacy Programs is available.
Best,
Sandy
Sandra S. Fotos, Ed.D.
Associate Professor of English
Senshu University
2-1-1 Higashi Mita
Tama-ku, Kawasaki-shi
Kanagawa-ken 214, Japan
***********************************
All that which ye potentially possess can,
however, be manifested only as a result of your
own volition.
Baha'u'llah
************************************
From derekmc@ix.netcom.comSat Apr 13 00:08:23 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 15:28:15 -0700
From: DEREK COCKSHUT
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Fwd: Scholarship on equality of women (was: last words)
My dear Sandy and Melissa.
I am coming round to the opinion that too many Men are voicing 'The
true picture of Equality of the Sexes'.I would be personally obliged if
the ladies on Talisman posted what they require from Mem in the Baha'i
Community in order to have equality a living reality at the grassroots
level as well as else where.If we get some working examples maybe
something can happen.Many months ago I suggest we considor practical
ways to assist like scholarship funds in the USA and for third world
countries without a single voice being raised in support by the men who
were leading the charge for symbolic gestures.
Kindest Regards
Derek Cockshut
From abtavangar@geoenv.comSat Apr 13 00:08:43 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 19:25:19 -0400
From: Alex Tavangar
To: Talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Scholarship on equality of women (was: last words)
At 03:28 PM 4/12/96 -0700, derek wrote:
>Many months ago I suggest we consider practical
>ways to assist like scholarship funds in the USA and for third world
>countries without a single voice being raised in support ...
I missed your original call. This sounds like a great idea. Since there
are numerous organizations and groups that have similar goals, we don't even
have to reinvent the wheel to be effective.
Regards,
Alex B. Tavangar
From Wilgar123@aol.comSat Apr 13 00:09:33 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 19:29:39 -0400
From: Wilgar123@aol.com
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: women...my last word...
Dear Milissa,
I enjoyed your posting and agree that you have raised some important
questions. I just want to make a few comments regarding Christianity and
Women. The examples you choose for your hypothetical Christian answers go to
show how just about any position can be drawn from the Bible when one picks
and chooses. There are of course numerous examples from the Bible (especially
the letters of Paul) where it can be shown that women were oppressed, and
indeed much of Christian history reflects this fact, sometimes in very brutal
ways. If you haven't read Joachim Kahl's *The Misery of Christianity*,
especially the section of the defamation of sexuality and of Women, I would
suggest it. It is a very hard-hitting critique (Kahl hits not only at Church
history and Paul but also at the Gospels). Indeed, I am often surprised that
modern Christian women can arrive at their notion of "equality" through their
own texts. I would argue that their change in status in the West has largely
been a result of secularized enlightenment thought. I guess, if one wants to
make a theological statement (rather than an historical one) it is possible
to speculate that Baha'u'llah's influence as Manifestation had something to
do with it, although this approach is not particularly to my own taste unless
it is understood in very very general terms and in relationship to a much
expanded notion of Revelation - but that is another topic. In parting let me
leave you with a quote from I Tim. ii, ff. "Let a woman learn in silence
with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over
men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was
not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman
will be saved through bearing children..." This is not to say that in the
Faith we do not have gender issues and problems. I think you know my position
in this regard. It is just to point out that I find it difficult when using
the entire range of Biblical books to come away with the notion that in"
textual" Christianity women are not seen as essentially inferior to men, and
this argument can be legitimately used in making historical comparisons
between the two religions.
With love and laughter, Bill G
From sfotos@logosintl.comSat Apr 13 00:10:25 1996
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 09:06:01 +0900 (JST)
From: Sandra Fotos
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: The Suzuki brothers (was:stern demeanor?)
Linda wrote:
>Now, Steve, let us get our facts straight here. It is very important.
>Haideya Suzuki is not John's brother in law. He married John's tall red
>headed cousin and they have brought up their two sons in Japan. They
>visited us last summer. Haideya was a counselor, but is no longer one.
>I have known him for years now and it is funny that I have never seen him
>as stern. However, I have only known him as a family member and have
>never done business with him. He may seem different to those with a
>different relationship. Wonderful guy. Love having him around.
Ruth Walbridge, (very red hair but very gentle and kind) was a dear young
nurse and pioneer to the Philippines. When Hand of the Cause Agnes
Alexander fell and broke her hip in Japan, Hand of the Cause Dr. Muhajir
asked Ruth to come to Tokyo and take care of Agnes. Ruth did a splendid job
until Agnes went back to Honolulu. In Tokyo at the same time were the
handsome Suzuki brothers, Dr. Toshio Suzuki (who Stephen is talkin about)
and his older brother, charming, stylish and witty Hideya Suzuki (who Linda
is talking about).
Hideya took one look at those green eyes, red hair and kind smile, and that
was that!!! After their marriage, Ruth and Hideya moved to Hokkaido as
homefront pioneers. They have two sons and the oldest is currently a
student in Hawaii. Hideya was the first Japanese counsellor (Mr. Ruhi
Momtazi was also cousellor at this time, as well). The second Japanese was
Mr. Zenimoto, who had to leave the Board because of health problems. The
next counsellor was Ms. Kimiko Schwerin, who is now in Haifa at the ITC.
Our present counsellor is another former nurse, Ms. N. Iwakura, who was
taught and deepened in the Faith by (former nurse) Jean Goss, currently in
South Caroline.
We are lucky in having amazing Japanese women taking the leadership in
this important institution. No problems with equality of men and women
there!!!
Best,
Sandy
From burlb@bmi.netSat Apr 13 00:10:54 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 17:31 PDT
From: Burl Barer
To: DEREK COCKSHUT
Cc: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Scholarship on equality of women (was: last words)
Uncle Derek, taking time from his super secret hidden list of no known
address, said:
"Many months ago I suggest we considor practical
ways to assist like scholarship funds in the USA and for third world
countries without a single voice being raised in support by the men who were
leading the charge for symbolic gestures."
Speaking of symbolic gestures, how do you like this one?
Now, with that out of the way, let me say that symbolic gestures are
really the best kind of gestures. They say a lot without taxing the
gesticulator. Consider mimes. They say nothing, move around a lot, wear
black tights, face paint, ballet shoes, and can move about in France without
getting beaten up -- which is more than one can say for Jews or Pakistanis
if they happen to catch the crowd in a bad mood.
My point, which should be obvious is this: Mimes say nothing, do less, and
make symbolic gestures more than anyone. To reduce symbolic gestures,
replacing them with real actions, would lessen the number of mimes
gesticulating for the Cause of God. If that, my esteemed Uncle, is your
position, then I must, in all good conscience accuse you of attempting to
Under Mime the Covenant!!
I am seeing Dr. Jack McCants tonight, my powerful pal on the NSA ( a Divinly
Ordained Institution, I might add) and I will tell him all about your plot
of undermiming....I bet *that* will get you a gesture but good! Not only am
I telling Dr. Jack, but I am also going to tell his travel agent.
Dr. Burl
>
>
>
>
>
>
*************************************
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From sfotos@logosintl.comSat Apr 13 00:11:38 1996
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 09:58:28 +0900 (JST)
From: Sandra Fotos
To: talisman@indiana.edu
Subject: Educating women= promoting economic development
Derek wrote:
>I am coming round to the opinion that too many Men are voicing 'The
>true picture of Equality of the Sexes'.I would be personally obliged if
>the ladies on Talisman posted what they require from Mem in the Baha'i
>Community in order to have equality a living reality at the grassroots
>level as well as else where.If we get some working examples maybe
>something can happen.Many months ago I suggest we considor practical
>ways to assist like scholarship funds in the USA and for third world
>countries without a single voice being raised in support by the men who
>were leading the charge for symbolic gestures.
(I'd better leave my sig off--the one boastfully saying I'm a professor of
English--since my posts this morning have been full of typos and editorial
mistakes! Hannah tells me that some email systems have spell-checking
capabilities. I just switched email providers and now use Eudora at my
publisher's domain. Does anyone know if Eudora has this feature? Why do
people like Juan and Sen always have errorless, syntactically perfect,
well-edited posts? Do they compose in a word processing program, then
import? Or maybe they are just very very accurate and practiced
writers!!!)
Anyway, to address Derek's question of what can we do in our communities to
promote equality of men and women: Aside from obvious interactional
considerations of not interrupting, respecting turn-taking in discourse,
seeking input from silent members etc., it is important for affluent
Western Baha'is to support educational initiatives in Third World
countries. For example, Dan Orey is again selling beautiful Greatest Names
(he gave me mine at Bosch and it was georgeous), with the money raised
going to support a Woman's Educational Program sponsored by the Baha'is in
Guatamala. Local communities could seek out projects like this to sponsor.
In addition, they also could offer to sponsor scholarships at Baha'i
schools such as Maxwell. There are several students currently at Maxwell,
including a Baha'i orphan from a Central American country, whose continued
attendance depends on scholarships. Right now the ability of the students
to remain is uncertain because of the lack of funding. How about this as a
start????
As my previous post suggested, educating women is perhaps the most
cost-effective way of stimulating bottom-up economic development. It also
has a wash-back effect of raising male consciousness about the pivotal role
of women in development--which might lead to more respect for women at the
local level in interpersonal relations.
Best,
Sandy
From robert.johnston@stonebow.otago.ac.nzSat Apr 13 00:12:11 1996
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 13:00:41 +1200
From: **Golden Eagle**
To: Sandra Fotos