[DefenselinkTranscript]

DoD News Briefing

Wednesday, April 3, 1996 - 5 p.m. (EST)

Lt. Gen. Howell Estes, USAF (JCS/J3)

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[This is a special DOD News Briefing following the crash of the U.S. Air
Force plane carrying Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown]

General Estes: Well, good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. This is obviously
not a very pleasant experience or time for any of us to be able to have to
get up and talk about such a tragic accident as has happened today with
Secretary Brown's aircraft. What I want to do for you today, since there
have been a lot of rumors out there and a lot of speculation about what
occurred, is to try to give you the facts as we know them. Needless to day
this happened at a very super remote area in terms of the location of U.S.
people and support that can be provided if something happened like this
tragic accident. And so, the flow of information has been a little
difficult, but the worst thing that I can do for you all today is to get up
and not state what we know is fact -- and so I will try to stick to that --
and to do that I'm going to use some notes and a few charts so that I
accurately depict the information that we have available at this time.

Secretary Brown's aircraft was scheduled to take off from Tuzla, in Bosnia,
at about 7 o'clock eastern time, this morning, and proceed on a route of
flight down to Dubrovnik in Croatia for landing. It's about a 45 minute
flight so they should have been on the ground there at about 7:45 to 8
o'clock Eastern Standard Time, this morning. The weather down at Dubrovnik,
this morning, was not very good and so as the aircraft proceeded to the
south, they were required to make what we call an "instrument approach"
into the airfield. The aircraft was on the instrument approach, was in
contact with the tower at the Dubrovnik airport, when contact was lost.

Initial reports that we received, and that were received in Europe, were
that there was wreckage sighted in the water -- waters of the Adriatic. A
search and rescue mission was launched, initially, from the U.S., involving
U.S. Special Forces, which -- the closest place we had people that could
respond to this were Italy, with the kinds of equipment necessary. They
were at Brindisi, Italy, but we deployed what we call an MC-130 aircraft.
It's a Special Forces-kind of an aircraft, a four-engine propeller-driven
aircraft and helicopters, the MH-53 helicopter, a fairly large helicopter
used by Special Forces and they were conducting a search and rescue. They
initially concentrated -- I should also add helicopters from other nations
were involved as well, not just U.S. in this initial search. All of these
aircraft initially concentrated on the areas that were initially reported,
which were -- was that there was wreckage at sea. No wreckage was found at
sea by any of the search and rescue assets. About three hours into the
search -- you've got to remember now the weather is bad, reasonably bad,
requiring an instrument approach; so as I will show you in a minute, there
are some facts, some hills in the area around the airport to the north side
of the runway -- a reasonable amount of distance, but nevertheless there --
and the fact is that we had some report from the Croatians that they had
found a crash site up on the side of the hill covered by the clouds. So, it
was obviously not easy to see, not easy to determine that there was in fact
a crash site there, but they initially reported a crash site of an aircraft
about three kilometers to the north of the western end of the runway.

The crash site has been reached by Croatian police and I've just received
word that there's also a Croatian doctor on the scene. U.S. forces are
striving to get to the scene, in fact at this minute may be at the scene.
There are helicopters on the ground at Dubrovnik's airport -- U.S.
helicopters that hold about 50 U.S. personnel. Initially, they made an
attempt to land at the crash site, but because of the weather were unable
to do that, and so they are, as rapidly as possible, working their way up
to where the crash site is. This is important because there have been
unconfirmed -- by anybody on the U.S. side -- reports that there have been
some casualties on the ground, obviously, but there are unconfirmed -- and
I want to stress "unconfirmed" -- reports of a survivor on the ground. And,
so it's extremely important that every effort be made to get help up to the
scene and that's why I go through this about, "who is there now." We are
being told that there is a Croatian doctor there and these U.S. personnel
-- of which we have some people with medical experience, although not
doctors -- at this stage of the game also headed up there to provide
whatever assistance they can to the Croatians.

Obviously, the Croatian government has asked for assistance in the search
and rescue. As I mentioned, we already have forces on the ground, the U.S.
on scene commander is a Brigadier General Mike Canavan. He is physically
present at the airport now. There's a team being assembled up at Tuzla, in
Bosnia, to provide additional assistance as required and the normal things
when you have an aircraft accident of this time, such as communications,
security, public affairs and mortuary affairs people, are going to be
brought down initially to Split, in Croatia, and then drive down to the
crash site. They're going to Split, instead of Dubrovnik at least initial
reports are they're going to do that because they want to be sure they can
get in with the weather situation the way it is.

I might also point out that an accident board has been appointed by the
chief of staff of the United States Air Force. The accident board president
will be Brigadier General Charlie Coolidge. He is presently here in the
United States, will leave the U.S. tonight for Croatia. The National
Transportation Safety Board has also agreed to provide assistance in this
accident investigation. Initially, four members of the NTSB will be with
the Air Force team and serve as advisors. I think it's important to point
out, at this point, there is no evidence of any hostile fire in the area.
There is no evidence of any kind of an explosion aboard the aircraft. And,
I think, at this point, because of the location, we would rule anything out
of that type. Obviously, General Coolidge and his team will do everything
humanly possible to determine the cause of this accident and will make a
full report.

One thing I think is also worth mentioning in terms of the manifest. I know
there is concern for numbers of people aboard, families obviously very
concerned, and we here in the Defense Department have made every effort to
try to confirm the people who were aboard the aircraft. The report that we
had is that there were 33 people aboard -- 27 passengers and a crew of 6. I
think with that as an opening, I will turn to the slides again and try to
give you a little more definition on the crash site itself, as it's being
told to us by the Croatians. I don't know if you can see that with the
cameras in the back. Let me turn this just a little bit more and maybe that
would be of help. This is a rendition of what the area around Dubrovnik
looks like with the Adriatic Sea out here. The city of Dubrovnik shown in
this area. The airport itself is located on this piece of land, you can see
the runway, here. The crash site is up on this hillside that you see here.

Q: [inaudible] as we go along or wait until you're finished?

A: We'll get through this and then we'll take questions, okay?

General Estes: Next slide, please. I'll show you one other view of it. This
is now looking out from the water, you can see the runway structure here,
this being the west end of the runway, headed east and the crash site that
is now being approached is up here on this hill. This hill is about 2,300
feet tall, to the west and to the north side of the airport, about three
miles.

Q: Twenty-three hundred?

A: Twenty-three hundred feet.

Q: How many miles is that?

A: It's about, I said three miles, it's three kilometers, three
kilometers... about 1.8 miles to the north-northwest.

One other slide to talk a little bit about the aircraft itself. The
aircraft is what the Air Force calls a T-43 aircraft. Many of you will
recognize this as a Boeing 737, very similar to the commercial version.
Some of the specifics: the aircraft is located at Ramstein Air Force Base,
that's where it is based. I've already told you the size of the crew and
there are just some other facts about it here that talk to its range and
it's speed and so forth. But this is an aircraft very familiar to all of
you and to those watching on television in that it's a commercial airliner
used for a long period of time in this country, with a very, very good
safety record.

As I mentioned, General Coolidge will be doing the accident investigation,
and when he determines the facts surrounding this accident, he will report
them to the proper authorities that he is to report to. I can only say
that, here in the Defense Department, in the Joint Staff, in the Air Force
throughout this building, there's a great amount of concern for the
individuals who were aboard the aircraft... obviously, their families and
we are doing everything we can here to assist the Croatians as they carry
out the actions that need to be taken at the crash site. We can only hope
that the reports of survivors are true and that more are found and we will
be making information available to you as it becomes available to us. If I
could start here.

Q: General, do you have any reports of confirmed fatalities? You told us of
the unconfirmed report of [inaudible].

A: We have no confirmed reports of either fatalities or survivors. I can
only put it that way, because I have unconfirmed reports of some fatalities
and one survivor, unconfirmed. Yes.

Q: General, there have been a lot of questions dealing with the same thing
and forgive me for getting a little technical for some of my brethren here,
but right through the approach for a moment, I'm interested in length of
runway, was there I-L-S there? Was he on the approach and veered off as
you're landing to the east or west? Was there a "black box" aboard? Was
there a windsheer detector aboard? Any evidence of windsheer in the area?
Things of that -- that?

A: Well, I think many of the questions you're asking really need to come
out in the accident investigation, but in general terms, I do know that the
airport was serviced by a radio beacon. That was what was being used for
the approach. It is a well-known system for doing instrument approaches.
Runway length was not a problem. They've got plenty of runway there. The
runway direction is in a heading of three-zero-zero to the northwest and to
the southeast on one-two-zero. They were landing to the southeast -- so
they were coming from west to east -- and from the slide I showed you
earlier -- let's just put that back up, the one with the water view -- no
the other one.

Q: That's the question, was he, sort of, on the approach when he went in or
after he -- he veered off or had gone past the airfield or can you tell us?

A: Let's get this up so everybody can see what I'm going to describe
here.... Here is the runway structure out here.... The aircraft approach
would have been from this direction. Okay, we're heading now into the west
side, toward Dubrovnik... we're heading to the southeast and landing in the
direction of one-two-zero. Okay. So, they would have approached over water
here and come in on about a heading like that -- in the approach.

Q: General, there were reports that a senior general was onboard, is that
the case? And who was that?

A: Again, it's difficult for me to confirm or deny these reports at this
point in time. When we have information that confirms who was on the
aircraft as we get -- as the rescue teams get to the crash site and make
that determination, it will be made available to you, I'm sure. I don't
have that information for you.

Q: Are there any communications from the aircraft about distress or
anything...?

A: No, and I think that's an important point, Carl. There were no calls
made indicating any kind of a problem aboard the aircraft. It appeared to
be a routine approach, from what I know at this point in time.

Q: At what point did you lose contact with the aircraft? Where were they, I
mean, in the approach?

A: Again, I can't tell you that, I don't have the information. I know that
they were in contact with the tower, making their approach, when contact
was lost. I can't tell you in what phase they were in because we don't know
that at this point in time.

Q: And do you have any idea of the timetable for the Americans to get out
to the site?

A: Well, as I said, and I just was handed a note, let me, yes. This just
says that General Canavan is there. I've already told you he's there on the
ground. They couldn't get in by helicopter. They're proceeding up now afoot
and I can't give you an exact time they're going to reach the crash site.
They could be there at this very minute, but I just don't have that kind of
contact with them since I've come down here. I can't tell you where they
are right this minute. And, let me just make it very clear that these
people understand what they're supposed to be doing and they're making
every effort to get there, as quickly as possible, if they are not at the
crash site as we speak.

Q: And, as far as you know, were the "nav-aids" at the airport, were they
working? I understand there's two radio beacons there, were they both
working as far as you know?

A: I haven't been given any information on that, so it's improper for me to
speculate if they were working or not working. We do know that a series of
two or three aircraft landed in the half hour prior to this aircraft,
indicating that everything was okay. At the moment this aircraft was making
an approach, I can't tell you what the status of the "nav-aids" was,
because I don't know.

Q: Do you know what the ceiling was, general?

A: We don't have a specific ceiling and visibility. I've asked for that,
but we know it was sufficiently cloud covered to force them to fly an
instrument approach.

Q: [inaudible]?

A: I can't tell you that.

Q: General, are your aircraft on missions like this under any different
weather-related flight restrictions than what we would typically see from
commercial aircraft or other routine operations?

A: No, the Air Force has set minimums for aircraft that fly. Different
aircraft have different kinds of minimums and we have approach plates, the
Air Force does, that in fact all military use these approach plates and you
are at -- your aircraft is given a certain category and for each category,
the weather minimums may be different depending on the kind of aircraft.

Q: My question was, are your Air Force minimums any different than those
that would typically apply in commercial air service?

A: No, not for this kind of an aircraft, it wouldn't be any different. In
other words, you're asking me would they be lower and the answer would be,
"no."

Q: Or higher?

A: It could be higher, but they wouldn't be lower than the published
minimums for the approach used by civilian aircraft.

Q: General, there's a rumor that there was a suggestion that this flight be
grounded and that the order was over-ruled and it went anyway?

A: You're dealing with a rumor again. I can't speculate. I had not heard
that. It will be looked at by the accident board as part of their
investigation. Yes, ma'am?

Q: You said earlier, if I understood right, that U.S. helicopters tried to
land at the crash site but they couldn't?

A: That's right.

Q: So, essentially, now, General Canavan's team is arriving? This is the
first time that U.S. personnel are arriving at the crash site?

A: At the crash site itself, that's right. Now, remember, What I've
described is General Canavan is at the airport, okay? And, that's what
we're talking about down here -- the distance they have to travel is up to
where the crash site is; we're talking going through very rough terrain and
there are no roads to where the crash site is. So, they're having to work
their way up there. The weather is still not good up here. It's cloud
covered and, in fact, right down on the top of the mountains. So, it will
take them some time to get there, but there are people on the scene as I
described to you earlier. For all I know, they may be at the scene by now.

Q: General, the civilian aviation charts for this area indicate that the
only instrument approach is either straight -- basically straight from
Dubrovnik into the airport or looping even farther -- farther to the south.
Is there any indication from the controllers who were talking to these guys
in the air, why they were apparently so far off of any instrument approach
course?

A: No, I can't answer that question for you. What you're describing is that
there are two approaches. There is a straight in approach, like this; or a
circling approach, that would take you out this direction away from the
mountains. And, those are two kinds of approaches off the same kind of an
instrument landing that would be done using the instrumentation available
at the airport. I can't tell you why they were where they were nor am I in
a position to speculate. That's exactly what General Coolidge and the
accident board will attempt to determine.

Q: Just to follow-up, sir, were there any reasons why [inaudible] approach
is set up that they would take a non-standard approach?

A: Absolutely not. No, I mean, it's -- I can't imagine when.... These
aircraft... we in the Air Force would fly it like you would fly a
commercial airliner. I mean, it wouldn't be any different. It would be
unthinkable that they would be flying an approach different than what was
published. What would they be flying, they have to be flying the published
approach, so, I don't -- we don't even need to speculate on that; they
wouldn't be doing something non-standard to get into the airport.

Q: Are you saying, though, that you think they were off that course?

A: I haven't a clue why they ended up here.

Q: Were they coming in.... You think they were?

A: Well, what I'm telling you is they were on an approach to this runway.
The aircraft impacted on the hill here. The accident board will determine
why this chain of events happened. That's all I can tell you.

Q: When did Secretary Brown get to Tuzla? And two -- have you gotten a
manifest from Tuzla?

A: What I'm going to do on this is I'm going to stick to the operational
details; the specifics of when Secretary Brown arrived at Tuzla, the
manifest issue will have to be dealt with by the State Department and I
think they're prepared to address that later. Let me go back here where you
have another question.

Q: This essentially is a dedicated passenger jet for USAFE, do you have a
sense in the last month, how often it flew? They must not have much demand
there for a plane this large ferrying people around? What about crew
proficiency? How come this wasn't the 89th?

A: Well, this is an airplane which is used extensively in Europe. I'm very
familiar with the utilization of the aircraft. There are teams that move
around. It supports not just Air Force, but other people as well, so it
gets good utilization. In fact, this particular aircraft had about 17,000
flying hours -- that particular aircraft did. It had -- in terms of 737s of
a similar age, they're up to between 30 and 50,000 hours. So it wasn't a
high time aircraft. Their plane had been through a full inspection, full
maintenance inspection in June of '95, a total maintenance inspection, it
has had a series of them since then. But the aircraft's been used in Europe
routinely and this is not an issue of crew [proficiency], I do not believe.
Okay, now, this is, again, I promised I wouldn't speculate, but knowing how
these aircraft are operated, I can't believe that lack of flying would be a
problem with this aircraft.

Q: Could you explain why it isn't the 89th, the people... you would think
that high officials always fly with the 89th out of Andrews? How come they
weren't involved here and it was a USAFE asset?

A: Yes. I can't tell you why that's the case. The 89th does the
long-distance haul for dignitaries like Secretary Brown -- a cabinet member
and a party like he had with him -- but in terms of making the shorter
flights that they are making into places like Tuzla, and some of the other
stops, they were making, it was obviously determined this was a better
aircraft to do it with. Yes, sir?

Q: Any information as to whether this crew had flown into Dubrovnik prior
to this flight?

A: I'm sorry, sir, I can't give you the answer.

Q: Do we know the estimated time of impact to the estimated time of when
the first Croatians -- whoever that might have been -- arrived?

A: Again, I don't have the specifics of that yet. We will get that. But we
just, you know, we're talking an awful long distance away. I wish I could
tell you exactly what happened and what the sequence of events were in
terms of people arriving on the scene, the information just is not
available yet. And, right now, our primary concern is getting rescue people
up there to assist any survivors.

Q: Was this plane carrying a flight data recorder or a cockpit voice
recorder that will help you figure out what happened?

A: It would be standard thing to have that in this type of an aircraft. I
think you can assume that that sort of thing -- a flight data recorder, a
cockpit voice recorder as there are in commercial airliners -- also is in
this aircraft.

Q: The ground proximity warning system, was that on?

A: I can't tell you that for sure, whether that was [inaudible].

Q: In what direction was the plane flying? And you told us where the crash
site was, but what was its direction at the time it landed? Can you tell us
that?

A: I have no idea. I just don't know yet.

Q: The Air Force told us earlier that it did not have a C-V-R or an F-D-R
on this, it did not?

A: Then, I've got to back off and say, if the Air Force has already told
you that, it's their aircraft.

Q: Which begs the question, why not?

A: Well, you're asking me, unfortunately, questions I can't answer.

Q: On the report of a survivor, do you have any other details at all as to
whether it was a man or woman or a passenger or crew?

A: I don't. And I don't want to speculate at this time. And, again, because
it's an unconfirmed report. I wish I could confirm this were true, but I
can't do it standing here, today. We just don't have that kind of
information.

Q: [inaudible] details that you have?

A: I have given you everything that I know of in terms of unconfirmed
reports, because you have a right to know what we are hearing as
unconfirmed reports. As soon as these things can be confirmed, it will be
made available to you.

Q: Looking at your command pilot wings, commercial 737s are having some
problems: a couple of crashes last year, engine failure, and/or jamming of
an elevator could throw an aircraft off -- even that distance. If you say
that you're pretty convinced that it's not pilot error that leaves two
things: act of God; or mechanical error. What's your feeling?

A: Well, you're asking me to speculate. Don't misread me. I'm not saying it
wasn't pilot error. I don't know what it was, that's not my job to stand
here, a very short time after the accident, and try to speculate. It's a
big mistake to do that, that's what an accident board is designed to do.
Let's wait and see what they come up with.

Q: Do you expect to be able to get search and rescue personnel there
tonight?

A: Absolutely. I think that's a distinct possibility and like I said, it
may have happened by now. As soon as we get confirmation, we'll give you
updates as we go through the rest of the afternoon. I'll take one more back
here.

Q: Have you had problems with the T-43 before, similar to the commercial
737?

A: I don't want to speculate on that because, if we have, I'm, personally,
unaware of it. I think if there were anything -- me being in the position
I'm in, in Operations and the Joint Staff, I would have been aware of it,
but I know of no problems -- no reports of any problems with the T-43
aircraft. Thank you very much.

-END-

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